The Final at Brentwood event 2009

**kodster** · 20th October 2009, 23:29

Okay, now that's just utter bull. Self-righting from the pit was never allowed in the first place. That's a solid fact right there, and a solid loss for Iron Awe.

Seriously, I really like Iron Awe but they did not deserve that win.

**robotwars** · 20th October 2009, 23:51

errrm

at a risk of getting shot....

Ive been a judge, and know how hard it is to make a quick decision... and to me i DONT think it is so clear cut !!!

Ok so iron awe went in the pit, but after 10 seconds he's out again, and it was entertaining to see him get out... throughout the fight he was flipping robots well into the air.. and thor did struggle to selfright after a flip by iron awe... and its axe was pretty lame by the end.

ok so iron awe lost drive to one side, but he was still mobile, .

But then thor did immobilize the other robots.

I will watch it agian tomorrow, and score it.

But on my first 2 views,, can see that thor probably should have won on points, but can see how iron awe could get it.

Certainly looks different than when i saw it live... then... i thought thor was defo badly robbed.

John

**widow_twanky** · 21st October 2009, 00:09

I seem to recall the previous discussions on rules going that you get ten seconds to get out of the pit, and you can hear the comentary with Angela saying 'how long were they in there for?' so fine I have no problems with that part.

Thor was agressive and in general desrved the win, but when you park your robot up at the side with ten seconds to go and don't engage for however long you get exposed to these type of decisions.

I said to Swanny at the time that I didn't see what else you have to do (disable two robots and partially disable the other) but watching the video I suppose what you have to do is engage. If you watch Iron Awe at the end they make a point of saying 'HEY WE'RE STILL IN THIS!!' by flipping Mega Mouse. Thor is parked up at the side ten seconds early. (Did they actually refuse to fight or stop trying?)

Not saying it should be that way, but that's what I think cost Thor the fight. Thor did enough and then lost on a silly tactical mistake.

Mind you there were a few dodgy decisions in that event. Not sure how the judges could spend five minutes deciding whether HYDRA won when everyone else was in the pit??

Andy

**swanaldo** · 21st October 2009, 00:14

correct me if i am wrong mr John but in a comp fight if you are pitted you are out. Thats the norm is it not. and we were still from 7 seconds thinking we had won.....

Thor immobalised maelstrom
Thor Immobalised Mega Mouse
Iron awe flipped a total of 7 times...no matter how good it looked
Thor got a total of 23 hits
Iron Awe flipped Thor 3 times
Thor hit ironawe 5 times
Iron Awe was PITTED
Iron Awe lost drive toward the end another reason we backed of with 7 and i say 7 seconds to go

Simple desision to me as a judge.....and 1 of them was DRUNK

**robotwars** · 21st October 2009, 07:09

yes mr shane i will correct you. If you are in the pit you have 10 seconds to get out of it . Been the rules for years.

As i said before yes i think thor should have won but i don't think its as clear cut.

As a judge it happens very quick and i don't think in that fight thor was as aggressive as it could have been. You've been able to watch it a few times. A judge doesn't.

**gravity** · 21st October 2009, 08:50

Will look at the youtube thingy when I get back home, can't view youtube at work.

At one of the roaming robots events I was at (think it was Newark), at the end of a big fight the judges asked the drivers the show them the weapons were still working and the robot could effectively navigate across the Arena. If you could not do this, that would be counted as a big negative.

So, let's say both Thor and Iron-Awe scored the same amount of points during the fight, at the end Iron-Awe was disabled. It could not engage in effective combat.

**RogueTwoRobots** · 21st October 2009, 11:30

Self-righting from the pit was never allowed in the first place.

Hmm, debatable. I'm sure it's been in RR's rules for a while that you have ten seconds to get out the pit; Robo Challenge competitions give you 30 seconds to get out (only usually beneficial to flippers albeit). I don't think it's ever been a concrete rule that if you go in the pit you're immediately out. It's not an FRA rule so it comes down to event organiser discretion and, as Jonno has said, it's been in RR event rules for ages now. It did seem to be the case in Robot Wars that once you were in the pit you were out, but that pit was so deep and large that it would be very difficult for anyone to escape that.

The pit is an arena hazard in the same way as the floor flipper is. You don't get declared immobilised by being flipped (unless it break's your robot) so you perhaps shouldn't be immediately declared immobilised if you go down the pit. Teams should have a chance to be allowed to get back out, but within the set time limit.

To the battle in hand, and in my opinion, the win should have gone to Thor. Iron-Awe did manage to escape the pit - I made it to be in roughly 9 seconds, but couldn't see fully - but Thor immobilised both Maelstrom and Mega Mouse and by the end of the fight, Thor was fully mobile albeit with reduced weapon power but Iron-Awe appears to have lost drive on one side. To me, that should count as substantial damage as they cannot successfully manoeuvre their robot in for an attack. So Thor for the win for me.

BUT, I do know judges have to make quick decisions and that in any sport, judges' decisions can cause controversy and can occasionally be unjust or incorrect (look at the Liverpool match at the weekend where a goal was allowed after being deflected in off a beach ball!) so I'm disagreeing with the judges' decision but not going to slate them for it.

And as much fun as we have with the social aspect of events, perhaps the people who are sitting as judges should be limiting their alcohol intake?

**robotwars** · 21st October 2009, 15:10

well the robot rumble judges have always been a bit contriversial. However they have now been told that their services are now no longer required. So 2010 we dont have the same issues.

I've just watched the fight again. .sorry iron awe deserves the win by miles . They flipped every robot a million times. Thor's hammer couldn't crack an egg. They are the reining champ's and they have yellow paint. You know robots with yellow or green get lots of pointss

**swanaldo** · 21st October 2009, 17:39

Ok........ jason and I have watched the vid for the 50th time......we have timed how long ironawe was in the pit....assuming the crowd cheered because it flipped out....i see no other reason for the crowd chearing...... it was in the pit for near on 12 seconds.....case rested. Book closed.....Closet open....Cars ready.....End of....Done....finito......

We are happy about the fact we won with no doubt. Discuss all you like now his so called 10 seconds was infact 12. There is a clock on the youtube vid....we won YAY.

Robots with yellow on them are just lucky and the teams must ass kiss the judges before hand. Ripper.....PAH....Iron Awe.....PAH.

TEAMBUD RULES