safety issues

[grant_ploughbot]

2.4ghz should be strongly encouraged yes, but there are some VERY good 40mhz systems that i wouldnt swap for 2.4ghz (any seen a Futaba 14MZ? ). And i dont believe the reported problems are caused by the 2.4ghz radios.
Its worth doing some tests to see what the cause is, but it isnt uncommon for these problems with 40mhz in general.

The point about our events being smaller does not mean these things wont happen, if anything it will make them worse.
We have never had a problem at our events, and had 20 robots in our arena fighting, and all the robots are far closer together........

[kane]

Agreed but the FRA has made it an absolute ban on 40MHz so should an EO decide to run 40MHz, then the FRA will no doubt play their insurance card again!

I do wonder at times at how the FRA reaches these decisions, come on let's see the reasoning behind it before I am forced to chuck 4 perfectly good radios, two of which have been modifed to suit the bots. Money that could have been spent on better things for the bot. I wonder if 2.4 gig hadn't been approved by ofcom in the UK, the FRA would have been so anxious to ban 40MHz?

As the rules have not been proposed or consulted on I think it's jumping to conclusions to decide that the FRA has made an absolute ban on 40MHz. It would not be appropriate to make a rule change without first consulting the membership and event organisers. Under normal circumstances the finer details would have been discussed at the next meeting prior to a consultation period.

The FRA is not here to force you to chuck away 4 perfectly good radios. However safety is an extremely important factor in any rule change that comes about. If the equipment is not up to the job, which lets face it is the reason at least 90% of the roboteers who go to events regularly use Spektrum or other 2.4GHz radios, then why continue to support it? Especially when the continued use is likely to lead to a accident.

Most (if not all) regularly attending events have already switched to 2.4GHz mainly for improved contol but also because it is much easier. For those only planning on attending events infrequently then there will likely be event organisers who will continue to allow 40MHz in white boards for some time. No one is asking you to throw away working equipment.

We would never have been in a position where 2.4GHz had not been approved by ofcom. Due to the way the frequency allocation is applied from the EU to the UK it was only a technicality that prevented the application of the licence free use of 2.4GHz to Radio Control. This was cleared up as a matter of course and was not something that required changes, only clarification within the ofcom rules.

[typhoon_driver]

I dont think theres much point in trying to say all new machines should use 2.4ghz. I was planning to downgrade hornet to 40meg once I have my new spinner up and working and keep it running to keep the crowd entertained. Sting, a vertical bar that I built with a uni mate is run on 40meg and I don't see much point in changing it as thats another 100 quid or so for what I would consider to be an inferior transmitter to the 6EX.

I've said what I want to say on the topic, no point dragging this out.

[m2xt]

As the rules have not been proposed or consulted on I think it's jumping to conclusions to decide that the FRA has made an absolute ban on 40MHz. It would not be appropriate to make a rule change without first consulting the membership and event organisers. Under normal circumstances the finer details would have been discussed at the next meeting prior to a consultation period.

Kane, clearly I am missing something here, the FRA official rules page states:

Please note that from January 1st 2010, 40MHz will no longer be permitted for use in feather weight and above. The only permissible radio frequencies will be 459MHz and 2.4GHz for these classes.

So let's analyse the FRA statement: no longer be permitted, only permissible radio frequencies will be 459MHz and 2.4GHz - How is that jumping to conclusions?

I have requested that the FRA demonstrate how it considers 40MHz to be unsafe now so let's see some facts. It's about time this forum livened up a bit and it's a time for you to shine Kane, so please answer questions as best you are able to in your official capacity, thank you. At the moment all I have heard from you is as I see it attempts to justify a decision using scare tatics such as Especially when the continued use is likely to lead to a accident.

The FRA has been quick in the past to refuse EO's PII if they do not follow the FRA rules in full so how can an EO allow 40MHz when the FRA has stated they will not be permitted next year? I recall the FRA threatening to withdraw PII cover for an event if I entered because I was not at that time a FRA member!

[kane]

Hi Paul,

The FRA needs to work with both EO and roboteers to provide the correct balance of safety and flexability.

The proposal is to restrict the use of 40MHz on feathers and above. How this is worded and the subsequently the effect that this has is yet to be fully discussed.

First we need to fully understand what the problems are and these studys need to take place before we go any further.

Thanks

Kane

[m2xt]

Hi Kane,

Sounds good to me. Maybe re-word or delete the announcement on the rules page for now. If you need to borrow a 40MHz scanner let me know and I'll post one to you.

Paul

[kane]

Thanks Paul, we may take you up on that offer!

[john_frizell]

Nothing I have seen here, or in the arena, convinces me that 40MHz sets are unsafe to use and so I do not support phasing them out as of Jan 1, 2010.

[botmad]

In MY OPPINION

I dont think there is too much of a saftey issue i think it more a case of interfearance and missfires due to the number of 2.4ghz being used and this being the case a lot less suppression on motors ect the interfearance is increasing and thus this appears to have started into a debate about saftey when it should be more along the lines of reliability ...... Not wanting to start a debate more just to offer my oppinion ...

I would sugest that the above is only my interpratation of what i see going on as i used to suffer from iterfearance with everything i built ie:

ok at home ... in the garage ... tech check ..... but in the arena ...like it was nothing i built.. lol.. but then i changed to 2.4ghz and have never suffered since ...

So i would recomend and do so quiet often that all newcomers buy 2.4ghz and anyone with problems try it i always have a spare set at most events so anyone with said issues is always welcome to try it out ........


In a way try before you buy ....lol



JUST MY OPPINION........ Pete....

[RogueTwoRobots]

Taking from the minutes of the 21st meeting of the Governing Body (25/07/09)

5. 40Mhz Phase out
Further research may be required and the kind offer of Mr Paul Cooper would be accepted for
the Portsmouth event to test the 40Mhz frequency with a scanner. Hence a proposal was put
forward to phase out 40Mhz over the next 18 months firstly in Heavyweights from Jan 2010
and featherweights from Jan 2011. This is now open to further discussion by the membership.
It was generally viewed that in the Governing body€™s opinion that 2.4Ghz was the safer
technology for fighting robots.

Was the 40MHz band tested with a scanner at the Portsmouth event? If so, any word on the outcome yet?

While I still think outlawing a complete RC system is unnecessary, I do understand that safety is of paramount importance. Therefore should the phase-out go ahead I think the above timeline is an improvement as most heavyweights already run on 2.4GHz and it gives feather builders/operators over a year's notice. The lowest 2.4GHz system doing the rounds at the moment is coming in at just under £40, which makes upgrading a slightly less expensive option.

I still like my 40MHz systems but both my featherweights are, or will be, capable of running inverted from 2010 so not having protruding aerials would be a benefit.

This is now open to further discussion by the membership.

Who's next?