Above 5 posts moved here from General Chatter.
Above 5 posts moved here from General Chatter.
Stefan - I have been ringing round all sorts of companies (ripmax, Thunder power, kokam etc) and not one of them can give me a straight answer to my question. Do you know how dangerous the fumes of a lithium (and other batteries, i know NiCads are very bad) in a fully closed arena are? Our featherweight arena is fully enclosed, and the smell of a burnt out motor lingers in the air for a while and we are concerned about the effects of a burning battery. Venting the arena wouldnt be a problem to do, but I would breathing apperatus be needed or is it very low risk?
If anyone knows the answers could you please let us know asap - Safety is our largest concern and with a fully enclosed arena things like too much C02 or other chemicals in the air could be hazardous.
On my desk I have some info on a Lithium-Cobalt-Nickel-Oxide cell, which is the kind that burns violently. Unfortunetly I cant tell you which cells these are, but they are NOT A123 cells.
It states:
Suitable extinguishing media: Dry powder. Metal fire-ex extinguisher typ PM12i, Metal fire-ex powder typ PL-9/78 DIN/EN 3SP-44/95 Carbon dioxide
Extinguising media that must not be used: Extinguisher type D, Water spray jet.
Special exposure hazzards: Risk of formation of toxic pyrolysis products. In the event of fire the following can be released: Hidrogen fluoride (HF).
Special protective equipment for firefighters: Use self-contained breathing aparatus. Wear full protective suit.
Additional informatio: Cool containers at risk with water spray jet. Fire residues and contaminated firefighting water must be disposed in accordance with local regulations.
Even though the warning, I know the company use water for extinguishing them.
I also have a list of chemicals used in the cell. Mail me if you want it, Im not going to disclose this on an open forum I will have to ask if such information is also available for A123.
Here are some MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) for various battery brands and materials:
http://www.batteriesplus.com/t-msds.aspxhttp://www.batteriesplus.com/t-msds.aspx
I dont know the situation on this, but will the robots testing the A123 cells be using them at this event?
I hope not as it is a big disadvantage to the other teams in the competition as large weight loss can be gained with these batteries and higher performance (24v bosches ran on 30V). It might be a little late to mention it as I expect the teams using these batteries have probably bumped up the weight to 102kg now but i know If i was in the competition I would certainly not be happy with it!
Hopefully I havnt noticed it anywhere that they are already banned from the UK Champs
I have wondered this myself, but then I came to the conclusion that for a true test of the A123 cells, the UK champs is the place to do it. I dont mind if the robots are altered because of the weight difference, even though I doubt it that something has been done to the robots in question.
Grant, I would assume not.
There were 2 teams accepted by the FRA onto the trials of these
http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/meetings/014_03_02_07.pdfhttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/meet...4_03_02_07.pdf
Those two teams were Mute and THz. Mute are not running in the competition so theyre not an issue, and I doubt that John would want to be seen as having any unfair advantage over others (other than the obvious engineering skill) so I wouldnt expect John to run trial technology in the FRAs UK competition - but John would have to answer that one for himself......?
... quick edit - could always just do a little bit of weight maths to ensure that those robots that are running the cells come in at the Nicad weight so trial teams dont have to fiddle ? Just a thought....
Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com
(Message edited by storm on August 13, 2007)
Yes, we are planning to run A123 packs in THz at the champs. These cells need to be tested in a realistic environment and as Leo says, the UK champs is the best test for them. Assuming that we get through a few rounds...
If we have no problems at the champs, then hopefully they will be aproved for use by everyone shortly after.
Althought there are now two other teams approved for the trials (Kan-Opener and Das-Gepak), we may be the only team running them.
I will be adding some ballast to reduce the weight advantage.
John
John ...I think the concern was that the Robot weigh less than the max weight .......thus showing that no unfair advantage has been acquired by the addition / upgrade of other items afforded by this weight gain.
Youve gained 2kgs ish .....therefore your bot should weigh in at least 2kgs UNDER the max weight allowance..... thus satisfying certain parties that you ( and any other test bots ) havent gained an unfair advantage by adding in bigger and heavier valving or something similar.
(Message edited by woody on August 13, 2007)
quote:
I will be adding some ballast to reduce the weight advantage
Right on the tip of the axe.
I think it is a good thing to see how they hold up in a full-on enviroment. I say go for it.
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