yes,but that is something that is happening in 12kg anyway, no matter how much power your spinner had, youll never get trough the likes of bonx or batterbot. And bonx was even 3 kilos underweight!
In contrast, feathers go up 13% which i admit is a lot. When the heavyweight limit went up it was 20% and none of us were worried about that. And ploughbot is powerfull enough to lift that extra 1.6kg, im sure.
and there was 12 months between 80kg and 100kg events!
I think you are also forgetting that its not just a weight issue, to get all the rules in line, pnumatics, hydrulics, removeable links, etc are all part of the discussions needed. It will take time. But its good that people put there opinions here, we could do with more, it helps everyone understand how the community feels and wants to progress. Which will ultimately decide the way forward.
To be honest I haven€™t really been following this thread with everything else going on. Ive just skimmed through the first hundred posts.
I don€™t plan to get dragged into this debate, however.
1) Personally ( roboteer speaking ) I am against any weight increase. Many times people have come to me and said feather weights should weigh more. This has normally been because they are trying to push boundaries and cant do it within the current weight limit. They always find a way of doing it. I am all for a standard rulle set, however people have spent far too long developing 12kg machines, only to develope them further into harder boxes, and more powerful spinners with an extra weight, leaving any new blood into our sport with an even bigger problem.
2) The FRA has to date not asked me as an event organiser what my opinions are, and am waiting for it to do so.
3) For this years Winter Tour, the weight limit will be 12kg no matter what happens, it will take time to discuss, and implement any rule changes ( if any ) within the FRA.
John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.ukwww.RoamingRobots.co.uk
Mark, I think you may be getting a little ahead of yourself. Yes, I agree that there will be a need to discuss build rules etc. but that is somethnd that will only happen over time. What is on the table at the moment only deals with the weight classes. It seemed a good starting point to at least agree the weights before getting on to the more complex issues.
Geoff.
Whilst it may be difficult inicially I believe that for the sport to move forward it is in our best interests to attempt to use the same rule set the world over.
Just my 2 cents
John,
Whilst I fully respect your views on 12 Kg feathers, from a personal perspective I think Im now the first UK roboteer that will have to try to deal with this diference on a practical level.
Jenny & I have signed up Pillow Torque for Robogames 2007 in San Fransisco next June. Now as things stand, if I wish to enter it into any UK or European event it must be 12Kg or less (which it is) I will then have to do some radical re-design for Robogames, contary to popular belief its not just a case of sticking on an extra 1.6Kg of armour!
Once it returns it will need yet another rebuild to return it to our specs.
Now, the next problem that I have is with my new machine, as this is being built for Robogames Im building this at 13.6Kg from the start. As things stand, under the current FRA weight classes and Johns ruling on 12Kg feathers at his events, I wont be allowed to even enter it into an event for a test prior to the US event in June. As this machine is a little complex Im not certain I could rebuild it within 12Kg on its return. Therefore I may be left with something that is unuseable in the UK /Europe as things stand.
Having had one machine from the US come to play over here I dont think we can use the well nobody would want to ship a machine halfway around the world for an event argument any more.
In short, the question has to be asked in view of the fact that machines have and will travel to events in other countries, which I think you all agree can only be of benifit to our sport... How long can we in the UK / Europe stand alone when the rest of the world has accepted 30lb (13.6Kg) feathers?
Just a perspective from someone who is having to deal with the reality of the current situation.
I take Johns point that people have spent a long time developing 12Kg robots, but I dont really care what the weight limit is. It just means existing robots can have more armour or more mass in disks etc. Just because there is a limit doesnt mean it has to be used, Tiberius 4 is 10Kg underweight, and is still a robot I would not like to fight in full combat.
(Message edited by geeza on September 03, 2006)
My adagia are
every gram counts, even in a superheavy walker
if you can paint your machine you had weight left
Its not as simple as it seems the weightrase to 13.6 kg. Just sticking on 1.6 kg of armor, and your motors and speedos will have to work harder, batteries will get drained faster.
If the weightbalance is still ok. You could end up with a sluggish handling robot, even when it was agile and perfectly controlable on 12 kg.
The rase to 13.6 kg could give people the chance to armour up against the current, small, crop of spinners, but this will also give the flippers or crushers the possibility to deal with the driving bunkers.
Flippers just dont care about armour.
I myself am not a pro 13.6 kg guy, 12 kg is a challenge in its own right. But if the rules change, Ill have to adjust the plans I have, and will live with it.
I only knew about the weight change to 100 kg 3 months in advance, not 12. But then again that also had to do with the lack of information coming through from BNN. Still, I never gave the weight increase much thought.
Still, im quite happy if the increase to 13.6kg is introduced, and just as happy if it stays at 12. Ill build to whatever the rules are going to be. Starting tomorrow if need be.
There will always be discussions about weight rules. I mean, there has been one last year right ? The bottles anyone ? The rules will always be under evaluation and re-evaluation.
But the point of this discussion revolves around having to choose from 2 different standards... metric or American (which is in fact English if I remember correctly) ? While I fail to see the logic in the non-metric standard, being not entirely unbiased in this since I was raised in the metric standard, someday somehow we must come to an understanding and get on with it, internationally.
In both standards the already applied weight rules seem logic, just the smaller one times 2 or so. In the end, though, it was always chosen in a more or less arbitrary way.
Me, personally, I would like to see the Americans finally grow up and accept the inevitability of a more logical -thus metric- standard. But thats chauvinism. Or my own flaw when it comes to understanding miles, yards, feet, inches, pounds, ounces, stones and other such monstrosities.
The Americans insisting the rest of the world should just wisen up and accept their standards just because they use it... oh well... deep inside we are all chauvinist pigs.
But the problem still stands: why should we give up a perfectly sensible 12 kilos up to a weird 13.6 kilos nobody with a right mathematic sense would understand the reason for ?
In a nutshell: Im not happy with the 13.6 kilos. There is no reason for the change. If Americans want to come over and put their own 13.6 kilos against European 12 kilos, let them. Theyre the ones who have to ship the ensuing wrecks home afterwards. Higher weight, higher shipping fees.
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