The Crash & Burn Tournament

[majinb]

quote:

Motivation: 4 Titanium WHEELS with urethane rubber and NIB magnets inside the rubber for extra traction on metal floors.

MOABIE certainly isnt a shuffler

then again, things like holes, and assuming the machines are a tad smaller than stated will put them at around 100 kg, also, every single one of us probably realised itd be VERY hard to make a robot out of pure imagination and make it exactly 100 kg, its a vapourbot-thing and I can live with it

[mark_m]

Fair enough. When I ran the numbers I was surprised how close they came to 100kg, given the motors and batteries used.

I think it would be more realistic to err on the side of caution though. The robot calculator predicts most real robots would be underweight, so there must be something Im missing out, which means Aarons robots would in reality be even more overweight.

I need to put more robot designs through the calculator to try to see where the errors are coming from.

[pcbore]

As far as weight is concerned, the way I look at it, most vapours are either overweight, or as what seems to have happened with May Tracks, very underweight (compressor aside) to overcompensate. The reason is, we cant build them to see if they really are 100 KGs, or weight the parts out before hand using anything more than what information we can gather on the partys, which are the only realistic ways to truly tell how much a robot can weigh.

The reason this doesnt bother me that much, is if all vapours are overweight, then it doesnt really give them an advantage. The only time it does bother me is if it does give a massive advantage, like having 4 Etek motors, 1 CM hardox armour and a hydrulic crusher.

Mark, my basic idea for the recycler would be to try and pipe the escaping gas into a compressing system, and then feed it back into the bottles... Its really an overkill idea though, seeing how many flipper battles tend to end when one runs out of gas.

[andrewj]

Aaron calculates the weights for his vapourbots by researching all the parts he uses, something a lot of us dont do. The armouring is calculated by using a formula to times a render of the robot against the armours weight. This is usually an effective method that many people have used to calculate robots weights and I doubt it is incorrect. Id say either the assumptions are wrong or the calculator is wrong, because I doubt the explained method is incorrect. All peak powers are used in vapourbots, otherwise how do we know what the system runs like without building it? I will assume Aaron will justify the weights of his vapourbots, so Ill leave that to him. If real robots weights are incorrect I think we can only presume the calc is wrong, not everyone else. Good work on the calculator though, and no offence meant. I just beleive its likely to turn out wrong.
As for the recycling system, Ive never heard of anything like it. Im also 99% sure Gravity never used anything like it at all.
All vapourbots are unrealistic, Im sure if SOR was put through the calc it would end up in the 500kgs. I think we need a decition about whether to carry on designing them the way we do, or working with the calculator and improving it as we go along... what do you say?

[pcbore]

Im sure Aaron can justify his stats, but if the calculator is making real robots look underweight consistantly, then thats still a cause for concern regarding his weights. But then, as I said earlier, I think most vapours would end up in the 120 KG mark, so its not like thats a massive advantage for him.

...Except for Acid Burn. Id like to see a break down of that, given the massive estimation.

[majinb]

I think most vapourboteers already have their own ways of creating vapours that arent hugely overweight, since among all vapourbots Ive seen here, not one of them seems to have an unfair weight-advantege over the others

I see Marks calculator as yet another way of creating vapours, and estimating weights since it seems to be far from perfect right now and neglecting certain factors like weight reducing holes and stuff... so as an answer on Andys qeustion, its great to have the calculator as a handy tool and I might use it, to see what a certain armour-plate is gonna weigh or so, but I dont think it should turn in some kinda bible that all vapourboteers should live by (even without the possible errors in it btw)

[alex_holt]

My way of doing it is clearly the worst - look at comparable machines and make estimates based upon what they can fit in. After that just look to see if it seems probable.

Effective as I rarely get weight checked, but not reliable...

[knightrous]

@Mark: Ive had a look at your calculator before and I found it very rough.

You dont go specific enough into each part selection. Small drill motor... Is that a Handy Worx drill? An XU1 drill? A GMC 2-speed drill? All of them are smaller then a Dewalt. The Handworx drills are around 200g, the XU1 is around 350g and the GMC is around 680g... So by your calculator... You can be any where from 25% to 50% out on a designs weight in just the drive train alone.

To assume the chassis, how are you doing this? are you just putting a box around the estimated volume of all the parts and using that? Which is okay if we all built boxs... What about wedges, and multi teir shapes?

I dont mind being the target of this weight factor, because I havent been challenged in my word since Nick left But your calculator seems very off. I cant get it to match a single real robot yet.. There just isnt enough selection in parts, chassis shapes/designs, armor types/thickness/combinations.

I generally design my vapourbots in Rhino3D, but I admit I have become careless in the last year or so with renders because even when I had proved the weight was within +/- 10% of the limit, people like Alex (No Offence) were being allowed to enter with no real showing of weight... So why bother putting in 5-8 hours work in Rhino 3D, and explaining technical parts when I can just throw some stats up in 30mins and bollox my way like 98% of the other entrants

Yeah, Im probably a bit over in places, but Id like to see you find one fanfic bot in this forum that isnt over in some perspective.

Bring on the lively debate