Why are people arguing?
the only real fact about any of this is that nobody can be 100% certain they are right....
Dave and I dont start ALL the arguements, just the ones where Im right
So nobody can be 100% sure they are right...
Are you completely sure of that?
no
yes
no
maybe
dont know
Well... you touch upon a sore point there. But I like the poking. So let me ramble a bit more about theories and how mad that can make the scientists.
The debate is whether the Creationists have a scientific hypothesis that is either based upon facts or that should be discarded because they work with an unknown factor that nobody can prove exists.
An example: the problem with modern physics is that the scientists must work with unknow factors, can only guess about their existence, because the facts can not be measured by human means. At the moment that is. Have you seen a quark yet ?
Thus, claiming that a certain theory isnt viable because one cannot prove part of it is hypocritical when you claim that another theory is viable even though its hard to pin-point the beastie. And that is the argument Creationists use in order to have their view on this world established as science. Seen it that way they have the right to have their hypothesis accepted as science. But...
A scientist digging into biological world history will try to find the facts, deduct a hypothesis, and change it when new facts see the light, all the time trying not to let her feelings and convictions cloud her perception and arguments. It is difficult to achieve and many have stumbled into the hideous pit of prejudice, but that is why one has peers, who can cheerfully agree to disagree and bring forward their own facts and deductions.
Creationists, however, start with an outcome, i.e. the Creator did it, and then work downwards from that, looking for evidence that bolsters their outcome. Ask any scientist, of any field, whether she would work that way and she will stare at you in horror. The newsies are full with stories of bad scientists who falsified their research because they had a pet theory and needed that research to shore it up.
Nick said Im still left wondering what you actually believe.
Sorry, I should have said that from the outset, I am a christian and, as such, I realize that I am prejudiced to interpret the scientific facts to fit my belief system.
I believe that God made this finite universe governed by its finite laws from his infinite universe. I believe that God gave mankind free will. I believe that Adams sin has caused death and disease to enter the world.
I have no scientific evidence that can prove the above.
Philip, I am curious, feel free not to answer the following question but I think it may add something interesting to the debate.
Why do you believe that god created the universe?
Was it through attending church or just that that seemed to make sense for you.
I would say that I first believed that God created the universe simply because that is what it says in the Bible.
Later in life, I went to school and learned the Laws of Thermodynamics and a few theories of evolution and the Big Bing theory. IMO these theories contradict the Laws of Thermodynamics. The more I learned about science, the more the facts supported creation, IMO.
In short, yes to both questions. First through church attendance and second through the fact that it made sense to me.
This can be split off to another thread if people feel it is getting too OT.
I take the bible to be guide for people to live good lives, although has probably caused more trouble and killed more indirectly that it was originally intended.
On the other hand I always had the theory that Jesus was an alien, all the facts fit, UFOs (guiding star), abduction and artificial insemination and the three wisemen (the original men in black). LOL
LOL.
If thats true, then what about Satan? Is he an alien too? Wish he was.
I do believe in God, but I dont go to church. Dunno what that makes me.
http://www.burgerman.info/creation.htmhttp://www.burgerman.info/creation.htm
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