New featherweight builders

[geoff]

OK, heres a few thoughts that I have been having regarding the current level of development in the featherweight class. As you all know the speed of development of feathers in the last 2 years has been nothing short of astounding, we have 2 or 3 HP spinners that carry more energy than some former heavyweights and pushers that can put the better part of 2KW of drive on the deck added to fact that some of these machines carry so much titanium or hardox armour they are virtually indestructible.
Whilst this development at the top level is to be encouraged, as it can only lead to better machines and spectacular fights, were does that leave anyone who has a real desire to become involved in feathers for the first time? If I were looking to build my first feather with limited knowledge and budget and I saw the likes of Little Spinner / Scorpion Evilution doing their thing or Pillow Torque or KR3 push a machine into the arena sidewall so hard that it either flies straight out of the arena or is crushed so badly that it will not run again without major surgery, my first thought would be to hell with that, I cant compete with those machines so why waste my time
Before you all start, yes I have been guilty of developing one or two nasty machines and on the odd occasion I have taken advantage of a less well built robot, but that is precisely the reason why I am proposing the following...

An entry level featherweight class.

These are not hard and fast rules, just my thoughts as to what may work for new builders, I would welcome all constructive comments. If a concessus can be reached I would be happy to write up a formal set of build rules and propose them to the event organisers and subject to their approval, to the FRA for ratification.

1: Current FRA safety rules to apply I.E. must have a removable link, power light, failsafes, use 40Mhz FM , etc.
2: No stored kinetic energy (spinning) weapons.
3: Any pneumatic system to be low pressure only.
4: No titanium or other exotic materials.
5: Hardox will be permitted.
6: No rare earth magnet motors (Astroflight, Magmotors, Thingap motors, etc.)
7: Type or make of speed controllers will not be restricted.
8: Batteries to be SLA, Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh. Li-poly will not be permitted.
9: Should there be a financial limit placed on construction of the robot? (Say £250 excluding radio equipment)
10: These machines to fight within their own class, but will be permitted to fight in the top level if the builder feels brave enough! But no machines from the top level will be allowed to fight in this entry class.

Please feel free to discuss.

Geoff.

Wouldnt a simple 2 tier system work ..with new Bots being intially placed in a suitable Division by their peers?

Or perhaps a ranking system that only allows fights within x number of places of your rating ..... together with your suggestion of being able to throw the down the Gauntlet to a much higher rated bot.

Woody

I have build a feather weight (currently not finished due to money restraints)and to be honest i am considering not finishing it.
Partly because i still need to buy decent batteries and a charger and partly because if i do finish it i dont want to take it to an event and have i trashed in 1 fight aginst robots i have no chance of competing against. I am not prepared to forgo a years work for 3 minutes of fighting outside of a proper uk championship with clear goals and prize money at the end of it.

From my point of view Geoffs proposal is very welcoming as it would allow me to have meaningful fights on a more level playing field.

Im all for building better, meaner featherwieghts. Unforunatly at this stage i have neather the finances, knowledge or tools to build something from Ti with 2kw of drive or a powerful spinner.

Just my thoughts.

our competitions are getting that way too what with magmotors, dewalts, magnet wheels, titanium and the like...

so now we just have a class of feathers that follow the same rules as normal except EVERY external panel has to be MDF basically. so everyones on the same playing field. if you want that mag spinner youd better be prepared to bring a whole lot of spare frames

http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=600&start=0http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewto...?t=600&start=0

[kane]

Why ban Titanium... weight?
If there is no spinning weapons just use ali instead it is much lighter. Or polycarbonate.

I think wooden extenal panels is great... cheap, easy to cut, medium weight, etc.

[tim_jones]

As someone who is sitting out at present due to the costs of being competitive I feel that the issue is unfortunately down to money. I enjoy competing againest cheaply built bots that have power due to design ingenuity with cheap parts because I can aspire to the same level of creativity. However the more expensive motors etc are beyond the reach of many of us and it is frustrating to be beaten by big money parts that you just cant see any way of affording for your machine.

I would suggest that instead of creating a beginners class, we look to a superclass. Any robot using parts that arent widely available below a set price should be moved up to this class. Any of us less affluent competitors, could of course enter fights in this class if we felt suicidal enough

It would be very hard to put a cost limit, as what do you include in it? What happens if theyre given something or sponsored? By limiting materials/components will bring the costs down anyway.

Maybe like Tim said a superclass would be better. I have Alpha for competitions to deal with the likes of Little Spinner, but im the first to admit its boring to watch 95% of the time. I would like to build a flipper for fun fights and concentrate on it looking good rather than worring about bolting Hardox on. But id be constantly watching the board to see who else enters.

Tricky subject, but something needs to be sorted to encourage new people.

[tim_jones]

I think the issue of cost is fairly simple , it doesnt matter how you got it, the cost would be judged on the open market value that it would cost anyone else to buy it. Sponsorship would then be a means of gaining entry to a higher class with a competitive machine as opposed to beating up smaller less costly machines.

This is not in any way intended as a criticism of those building with expensive parts however they obtain them. It is merely a thought based on taking a bit of time out to mull over why the sport was losing its edge, fun and challenge for me personally. Featherweights were fun for me when the only bar was my own ability, we can all learn new skills. Sadly we cant all afford more costly parts and the amount of sponsorship for a fairly low profile sport is limited. To be honest Id rather spend my time and efforts in the workshop with a few cheap bits, than chasing sponsors and then explaining why there was no pot of gold in it for them.

I like the idea of creating a higher class as opposed to a lower/lesser class as it gives us all a target and a dream to aim for. Its a small point maybe, but it seems far better to create a gold standard we can all aspire too, than an also rans class. We can all dream of that mythical cheap machine that is competitive in the higher class

yay, i can still enter BonX

[andrewj]

Im currently in a position where my robot would stand no chance in the current Featherweight class, but it also wouldnt fit into the ideas for the lower class suggested above (eg. Im way over that budget and will be using some Titanium).

Im just going to suggest a spinner and non-spinner class. Those that can afford Hardox and Titanium or feel they want to go into the spinners league they can. Those that do not have the funds, armour or courage to take on the spinners could go into the non-spinners allowed league. But then that wouldnt stop anyone having DeWalt powered rammers and Full Pressure flippers. So maybe the way to go is to have a limit to each weapon type...

Low Pressure Flippers - Lower League
High Pressure Flippers - Higher League
Rammers (Under ???hp) - Lower League
Rammers (Over ???hp) - Higher League
Spinners (Over ???rpm) - Higher League
Spinners (Under ???rpm) - Lower League

You get the picture.