Rule 12.2.1 (Entanglement)

[babeth]

Good idea.

[big_nipper]

Fluppet, I agree that the Idea of keeping hold for the full fight is not fair but as I see it it has been allowed so far. We have never held on that long yet (at least while Im controlling the weapon) as it makes for a dull fight but in a serious competion where alot of money is at stake organisers beware. Like the other Ideas though alot fairer.

[fluppet]

Eh? Sorry Mark, but the hydraulic crushers and the few genuine clamp bots around have always, as far as Ive seen, made a point of letting go after a bit - I presume within the 1 minute (or 30 second, or whatever) limit, give or take editing for TV. Its true that, due to the limited number of clampbots, there havent been many cases of robots being carried around for long periods of time. Still, if you, or TAN, or Complete Control, or Huggy Bear, etc. were to take more than 60 seconds delivering a robot to the pit (or hazards) without letting go, Id expect you to do so.

Ive always presumed this was because of peoples interpretation of the pinning rule, not just because of sportsmanship. Am I wrong?

(Theres probably a bit of leeway in the business of a robot being stuck on the beak of a crusher, where an attempt is made to free but a deadly embrace is clearly short-lived, but the general concept stands.)

If Marks interpretation is correct, that would seem to have distinct implications for a lot of contestants...

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Fluppet

[arfamortis]

Regarding robots grounding,

I personally would like to see a raised area (say 2 meters square by 25mm high, vertical sides) in the arena as I believe that the current trend toward ground dragging robots is spoiling a lot of fights due to people becoming stuck on the floor, many of them then trying to blame the floor material. If a robot has too little clearance its the robot design at fault not the floor. I hate rambots, theyre boring.

[leorcc]

Arthur, several robots who do not scrape the floor will have problems with a 25 mm raised area. Only with one of my heavys would i even attempt to take that hurdle, and even then i am not sure it could tackle it.

That is not of my poor design, but simply because there has never been a need to take such a precaution in the past. The floors are flat, why build in ground clearance? Only more opportunity for flippers to get underneath.

As far as rambots are concerned:

Here in Holland there are 2 pure rambots, both from the same team, called Alien Destructor (later re-baptised as Das Gepack for the german series) and Alien Destructor 2.

2 things i noticed about them:

1: The ground clearance on both machines are about 2 to 5 inches, so not exactly floorscrapers.

2: I have never seen a boring fight with either of the two robots. Not once.

Just because they are rambots doesnt automaticly make them boring.

--
Leo

[jim]

A 25mm raised area would benefit my robot - it would easily cope with such a step. Its a rambot and Ive spent over two years building it. Im sorry if you dont like it.

[mute]

Arfa, if there was a 25mm raised platform in the arean you will effectively ban Mute from the arena... until such time that Mute can get under an edge of the raised lip and plain/shear it off. We run very low ground clearance because we have two flippers and both need to be in contact with the floor.

While I can see your point about pure ram bots, a raised lip would also stop a lot of flipper bots too.

[fluppet]

Arfa: I sympathise. Ive suggested in the past that the public might find robots more interesting if the terrain was more uneven - that is, if you could effectively do outdoor fights (e.g. in a quarry). I think it would shift the public mind set from armoured radio controlled cars [uncool] to development military combat machines [cool]. Ive never really been keen on the concept that the lower wedge wins the fight, which is often the case. I speak as someone with plans to build flippers, so Im not trying to be anti-wedgist.

Obviously this has two disadvantages: 1) most current robots couldnt cope, and 2) fighting over rough terrain could be a disaster until people have had some practice (plus its harder to get an audience to, other than by dumping obstacles on the existing arena floor). Id like to see it run in parallel for a bit, but I dont think well be in a position to abolish the existing format for a good while yet.

That said, its certainly true that attempts should be made to stop a robot grounding just because its not on an abolutely flat surface, but however tall the robot theres a chance that it might get trapped on a large-enough chunk of detritus/shrapnel. I dont think being stuck because your wheels are off the ground should be a fight-losing offence - although it does, and should, mean youre open to free attack from your opponent for a bit.

Robots getting stuck are dull; robots failing to fight properly because they cant navigate the arena are dull. Ram bots are not, of themselves, dull. (IMHO.)

--
Fluppet

[typhoon_driver]

why not use some settings like in the robot wars games? (annoying as they were)

dress an arena up to look like a subway or roof top etc. Whilst interesting it doesnt require an uneven surface.

[big_nipper]

Arther, I know youve mentioned this a few times to me and I still prefer it to remain as it is for the moment. The type of arena that Fluppet is suggesting would be a good challenge, just not for us. Im trying to remember who tried to set this up a while ago, but the name seems to be hiding in the grey stuff.

We could not drive over this rasied section as this would ground us, but should be able to climb off it. We get stuck on the floor enough as it is with bits of other robots. Fortunatly we can raise the front wheels off the gound to get off the obstruction.