*sighs* Im not even going to bother Grant
.... should we introduce a 3Kg class for the people who find 6Kg a bit tough too ?
Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com
Im not sure I do understand- Ed has a point. It does dilute things, and importantly what I dont think youre realising is that it becomes very confusing for newcomers. I am fairly sure that its easier for newcomers to start with feathers. Thats was the arguement that was being used a year ago.
We MUST NOT get on the slipperly slope of finding that 6kgers become to complicated and so invent a 3kg weight class. 6kers will become too hard to build at a very competitive level. You must avoid using this arguement. It will get us no where. I see 6kers as a fun aside for feather builders.
Please do not introduce them as a route in- stick with established routes in for which there are more events- which is what newcomers want. It is good that RC wars will provide events, at least it would be if there didnt seem to be such a secretive stigma attached.
I also think Ed is being relistic- I would not be for this being recognised as a new weight class officially. Dilution is a problem when youre talking reasonably big money which we are. I am fairly confident you will get discruntled newcomers who will be annoyed that theyve been ancouraged to build 6kgers only to find its the feathers having fun every 2/3 weeks. Please lets not go own this route.
Its only coz RC Wars are building and making and are going to sell 6kg Robot Kits.
Mr Stu
Not sure I dare post to this thread...
Id just prepared a big (well, not by my standards) post to say that the community will find its own level, and roboteers will only be pulled from the existing categories if theres a benefit to the new one; therefore the new category will die out if there are no roboteers converting to it, no robots in it, and therefore no place to fight. I have to agree with Grant that my motivation to build (when I get there) is based on the challenge of building, not on crowd-pleasing.
However, I have to agree that confusing the newbies (with whom I vaguely group myself, still) would be a bad thing; to a lesser extent the same is true of the crowd. Id be interested to see people fighting at 6kg, just in an informal heres a 6kg robot, build one to fight against it, I think this category brings its own unique challenges sense - we might learn something - but the official categories are quite enough. Arguably too many, since so few middleweights exist. On the other hand, as we get higher grade arenas, Id be interested to see whether more people build superheavyweights.
I would like to say that there are some very scary feathers out there, though. One reason I want to build a heavyweight is that there are *friendly* fights between heavies; I can build a heavy which will lose in such a way that it doesnt cost me a fortune to repair it, unless I enter full combat events (no way, for my first few robots). If I enter a feather, as far as I can see theres a sporting chance the whole thing will need a rebuild - not just the chains reattached, a few welds repaired, some dents banged out, a panel or two replaced and a few wires resoldered (which Id consider to be pretty major damage on a heavy, but still minor repair work). Daimon losing a wheel (twice) to Scorpion Jr. was instructive, and people talking about translational spinners arent encouraging me to take that route into the sport.
As it happens, I dont have a problem with entering directly with a heavyweight (other than a little bit of saving up), but if feathers are seen as the way in then maybe we should be watching this.
Back on topic: build the robot, arrange some opponents, ask an event organizer if you can put on a show event (like the show sports at the Olympics). If it takes off, it takes off, but it needs to displace the existing categories on its own merit. Maybe 6kg really is a better entry point than current feathers, but lets prove it in the arena rather than deciding the categories in advance.
If these things are kit built, thats arguably a different matter - perhaps the kit should be part of the category (like Rexs Robot Challenge having additional requirements). I dont see a problem with putting on some show fights (you know, for kids), but if feathers are the official category then its more likely that people will aspire to make a step up. Theres also a good chance that a self-built machine at 6kg will be less effective than one built from a kit, and that has to be discouraging; I can see the point to keeping them separate.
Have I managed to walk a middle line, or am I going to get rotten eggs thrown from both sides? :-)
--
Fluppet
Pretty central Andrew;-) The problem with introducing them as a way in is that weve seen the same thing happen over the years. Weve seen how radiply feathers have evolved with the benefit of experience from bulding heavies. I see no reason why 6kgers wont almost immediatelly jump to the same standard- no easier for a newbie to build. Feathers are substantial but not unwieldy, not that cheap, but considerably cheaper than heavies, and theres a massive and rapidly growing support base for them. They really are the weight class for newbies (excluding those such as yourself who are familiar with all the technology and so on anyway). I really think pushing 6kgers as the new entry level weight class will have a detrimental effect.
It would appear that RC Wars do plan to sell 6Kg kits, so suddenly their motives for arguing here seem clear.
And Grants post from earlier
And Ed, you seem to thing its us Coopers making a huge fuss over things, its not, we want just what Ian and many others want, a new class at low prices, and its a good way of testing out new feather designs without spending much money.
Seems to me what you actually should have said was were making a fuss as we have financial gain from the 6Kg class. Looks like Eddy was right about that secretive stigma as well - why not just be honest about whats motivating you ?
Ive no issue with anyone selling a 6Kg robot, its nothing to do with me, however....this means that
I hope you all understand what im trying to say, the public shouldnt stop an official 6kg weight class
translates to
People shouldnt stop a 6Kg class being created as we plan to earn from it
I dont believe a 6Kg class will benefit the sport at a whole. By all means run a 6Kg class in RC Wars, but I find it extremley unlikley that any 6Kg class will become an official class guys !
On that basis, will your customers be satisfyed with buying a product that they cant run at all the events that go on over the summer ? Suddenly (and ironically) you find yourself being at the beck and call of that public again and what they might want as a product.
Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com
I know that its completely off topic, but dam those americans
http://www.valleysolar.com/lwbot1.asphttp://www.valleysolar.com/lwbot1.asp
grrrrr.........
weve seen similar things with the superants and kilo bots, people thought they would be a good idea but ended up being abit of a flop. If RCwars are planning to sell the kits then it obviosly puts a whole new light on their view.
is this one of those threads that will go on for pages but still end up without a solution?
Could Do Alan, we just never know - the truth is out there...
Mr Stu
I just wrote a huge post about my veiws and facts but the cat jumped on escape so i cant be bothered to type it all out again so i will vaigly point out the facts.
Rc Wars is not up for 6kgbots for money at all, the kits were an idea for any weight class but firstly originated with our 6kg bots. NOTHING has been confirmed yet and everything said about these kits are unreliable second hand information!
I want 6kg bots for many reasons, I have always tested featherweight robots in 6kg before building them as a feather for testing of methods etc, and i have found this to work well with PloughBot and i am currently doing the same for a new feather.
I understand your points about confusing to newcomers, and its a very valid point, but money is out of the question.
Ed you said to be honest here, and i am. Things have been miss heard/read and so false accusations are being portrayed.
Lets just get off this track of trying to prove people wrong i bet everyones sick of it now, i know i am. So what do people really think of these robots? Are they worth being taken seriously or not?
I will keep building, testing and fighting with them whatever happens...
Thanks Grant
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