Power/failsafe LED

[john_frizell]

This debate reflects two different approaches to safety: one approach relies on a safety culture which seeks to eliminate any action that could cause an accident, the other approach relies on devices to warn of dangers that could cause an accident. Both have their strengths and weakness. In my view a safety culture is by far the stronger approach and I think that the introduction of power lights, which will come to be relied on as an indication of whether a robot is dangerous or not, will actually weaken safety consciousness and over time increase the chances of an accident.

But at this point it does not matter what I think. I am installing a power indicator light on my robot because the FRA has ruled that one is required and I will not be able to continue competing if I dont. This will not change my approach to safety; I will continue to regard my machine as dangerous whenever the link is in, whether the light is on or not, and I will take the same attitude toward other peoples machines.

I hope we can end this debate over power lights and move on to a discussion of how to improve our safety culture.

[fluppet]

At the risk of sullying my reputation by making my first post (on this forum) one which drags out the debate...

Regarding the dont attack the link problem. Ive always felt that the goals of having a link which can be easily and safely removed, and of making sure it doesnt fall out in a fight, are mutually exclusive.

Since events (outside Mentorns control, anyway)allow roboteers to declare when a robot is dead, what would EOs think of allowing a dead robot to be (briefly) inspected, and allowing it to continue fighting if the only thing wrong is that the link is out? (Immediately, I mean - an obligatory rematch would just get tedious).

Advantage: possibly slightly fairer results (who hasnt felt sorry for a robot disabled by a lucky hit on the link?)

Disadvantages: might mean trying to insert a link into a damaged robot without proper inspection (although if links are inserted from outside the arena this might not be so bad). Also unworkable for battles between more than two robots.

Im still only a proto-roboteer, but it strikes me that making a link safe and visible would be a lot easier if having it pulled out by a lucky hit didnt mean the loss of a fight. Maybe a policy of three falls and youre out if someone has a link prone to damage, no as not to hold up the event too much?

FWIW I approve of the LED (it would also look cool), but Im under no delusions that a dull robot is a safe robot. Id have thought that with a bit of contrasting paint around it (small black circle or something) thered be no problem seeing a modern high-brightness LED in reasonable daylight.

My original thoughts on the subject were to have a failsafe radio channel on the link (if theres a signal the robots live), but thats both more expensive and even less reliable than the LED; it would allow hidden links and a better range on one indication that the robot is live, though.

[babeth]

I know from experience that roboteers do tend to grow careless from the moment when they must put their robot into the arena and get on with the fight. The Newark Incident was a perfect example (me standing 2-3 meters behind the person who got the wallop so I had a GOOD view) and no matter how seasoned a veteran may be they all fall for it sooner or later. You know your robot, you trust it, big problem in my point of view.

The problem is that on Dutch live events when I shout LINK or STAND BACK FROM THE ARENA roboteers tend to regard me with annoyance and often ridicule me for it. They even demand that I stop doing it so I dont do it anymore. They call me nitpicker and busybody but I always see them making the same mistakes regarding personal safety over and over again and that angers me. You do need a person who is not affected by the fight fever, keeps a cool head, watches what people are doing and shouts when it is necessary. If you feel it breaks the mood I dont care, I would rather break the mood than see a broken body.

Apart from this... When I say hobby shop I do not only mean shops for RC hobbyists, but also car-tuning shops, Do-It-Yourself shops and other electra-oriented shops. There is good and affordable wiring/connections available if you broaden your range of shops to visit.

As for the right materials... Isnt there a low pressure ram on high pressure in WBC ?

[roger_plant]

Andrew, my insurers are not specifically knowledgeable on live robot event safety.
They have seen proof of my work experience and qualifications that go with that work.
They are satisfied that I have the technical and safety knowledge to manage the event safely.

Send me an email; I will give you their details.

The only rule I have suggested changing is that the safety links are altered so they are removable, in an emergency, using a 10 foot long pole with a hook on the end, and the gas turned off by the same action.
I will not insist on that this year but will next.
I would like to see roboteers at this year€™s event using their initiative to suitably adapt their links.

Power ON warning lights may be fitted or not, as you wish.

I will publish a set of rules ASAP.



Daniel, dont worry, you will get over it.
With your disparaging attitude you would not have made it onto one of my bomb disposal or mine clearance teams. Several like you tried, but we rejected them.
You should give some thought to the possibility that some people do know what they are doing, even if you don€™t know that.

[kane]

For reference

This is the Fighting Robot Association Roboteer Forum, run by roboteers for roboteers. Please keep chat clean and non-offensive. Persistent offenders will be barred.

Regards
FRA forum admin team

[roger_plant]

Elisabeth,
WBCs ram is hydraulically tested to 150 bar, more than twice its working pressure.

[stu]

My God -

The only rule I have suggested changing is that the safety links are altered so they are removable, in an emergency, using a 10 foot long pole with a hook on the end, and the gas turned off by the same action.
I will not insist on that this year but will next.

Any robot that deliberately attacks the link would be disqualified,

Do hope your having a laugh.

The safety requirements Roobts have at the moment are good enough. The LED light addition is to help the roobteer and others know if the robot is alive or not when doing anything. A standard lighting rule should be made for the LED lights. A certain light for when the roobt is alive, or just RX on or in failsafe mode.

You start making and deactivating robots using a 10foot pole - then the hobby turns into who has the best balance skills to pull their link out.

Tis getting a bit silly now. How about we make RC ejection links. Press a button and your link auto pops out? Anyone for this rule?

Mr Stu

[kaideejee]

Sounds good to me now Ive ordered my brand spanking new 6 channel system

Ahem. Sorry.

-- Kev

[jim]

I was just thinking about that Stu. Ive got some small cylinders which could do the job - just have to be careful they cant fire when youre inserting or removing the link manually.

[mute]

Roger, get over what??? And please dont pretend that you know me because you dont.

Exactly what are you going on about with regards to bomb disposal? I thought we were talking about Robots, safety issues and 10ft poles...