Pit Rules

[Eventorizon]

I have never fought a flipper outside of a whiteboard but it is a little frustrating that they can recover from the pit during a competition fight despite being out driven and being pushed down the pit. It a way it removes some of the skill required to drive the the robot as you know that if you do get pitted you can get out again without much trouble.
You could have say 30sec immobilisation rule and 7.5sec to get out of the pit.
James - What is the current mechanism that lowers the pit ? Could a new one be built that would allow it to go lower? And 10kg feathers; they would just fly further!

[Ellis]

I would be happy to let flippers escape the pit if they didn't have the absolutely massive advantage of being able to flick a robot over the walls. There were loads of intense fights at MMM14 this year, which I put down to flippers not having the immediate upper hand. And it isn't like they would become redundant, Adrenaline (FP flipper) beat us to first place with no OOTA zone.

It can almost be guaranteed that a flipper will either win the 2013 champs, and if not, one will definitely be in the top 3. I have to say I find that disheartening.

[razerdave]

I watched that venom and Explosion fight back, and:
1: Explosion was not on its wheels for 11 seconds.
2: Venom then pinned it (on the wall and then with the claw) for 30 seconds (right at the end of the 30 seconds, Venom drove explosion and himself in the pit.
3: Explosion was mobile again within 30 seconds (escaped the pit and then turned itself back over.

Does the 30 second immobilisation rule come to effect if it gets pinned during the count ? I say (and the rules say) no. By the rule set at the time, Venom lost fair and square.

As for the pit rule, would prefer 10 seconds to 30 as a compromise between comp rules and the entertainment factor (the audience wouldn't want to wait the full 30 seconds).

I did not hear of any discussion about changing the rules until Kane informed the judges at the HW champs.

[Liftoff]

Just my 2 cents worth...in our event the pit has a simple trap door hinged on one side, anyone falling in the pit will find himself about 2.5 feet below the arena, the pit has no sidewalls so if you move or roll to one side it will be next to impossible to get out of it, even for a flipper as you'll hit the pit ceiling trying to get out. Imho it is the simplest way to build it and the biggest chance who falls stays there

[james...venom]

Thats the tricky thing Dave the rules are grey and just need some clarification as the opponent showed it couldnt selfright and didnt move for over 30 seconds. Again I have absolutely no problems with them, they are great guys. Its more to do with rule interpretation. I thought the battle was already over however it the judges hadn't started counting. Regarding the pit we are stuck with its depth so for us we need to find a way of taking away advantages of certain weapon types. Its certainly not to stop minority robots like seraphim but to even the majority of flippers.

I understand for shows and whiteboards do what you like because its 'fun' its 'entertaining' however we do sports events so the rules need to be clear.

[robotwars]

James,

I think I've watched the fight in question and its interesting.

Surely the only reason it wasn't moving was because you had it pinned, so it can't be counted out because if you weren't holding him he could have continued ??

At the point you grabbed it, was the point it would have landed on its wheels and carried on.

And bad driving putting yourself in the pit too ??

John

[james...venom]

thats why I say its grey. From what I saw it tried to self right repeatedly and couldnt so I grabbed them. The aim was to keep hold and drive both machines in the pit and get jammed in there however they came loose and got out. Mobility wasn't shown for over 50 seconds whether thats because they couldn't selfright or were in the pit, on their back stuck etc my issue was that the clock was never started. Judges didn't feel that it should be started because it was a flipper. If it was the other way round and venom struggled to self right the clock would be ticking down. As soon as Venom is on its back they did start the clock in all my battles.

This is why I feel for competition battles it should be nice simple rules that everyone can follow and measure as it used to be. For entertainment shows do whats fun.

[james...venom]

Both Pit rules and Immobilisation rules and knowing when to count out was a discussion started by Kane straight after the FW UK champs in which all EO's and FRA committee members were included. Regretfully only Jonno replied and maybe its a conversation that should be continued.

[robotwars]

surprise surprise it was only me who replied !!

[craig_colliass]

James seen the video and if I were jugging I would have given the fight to Explosion. I counted 14 seconds with explosion doing it's thing then about 28 seconds with Venom holding it. As I see the rules they aren't unclear Venom lost. Sorry

The reason why the EO's should pay for modifications on their arenas is they are theirs!

The sentence
We should adapt the rules to make the sport go in the direction we need it to go,

I would argue the rules are simple and don't need adapting they need adopting.

We just look at what robots have it easiest and then look at how we can even out the advantages as any 'sport' would do.

Answers Caged fights, restricted gas restricted ram size or reduced pressures, In the 2012 Champs how many fights apart from yours, were lost as a result of a pit evacuation and how many from OOTA's I don't know but I would hazard a guess :shock: