Pit Rules

[robotwars]

LOL

[james...venom]

I believe this was discussed and agreed along with judging guidelines after this years fw uk champs by everyone? We have said for a long time that we didn't feel allowing the robots out of the pit is acceptable as it favours flippers.

After what I felt was a wrong decision at the champs I felt it needed addressing. Lets not forget that this has been the rule since rw began and only changed because RR thought it was entertaining which is fine for whiteboards however a champs is a sport.

Allowing robots out the pit has caused incorrect decisions and confusion many times in a sport situation. It's a given that flippers will get out so are not counted out where as all other robots are out. This also happens when a flipper is on its back. When venom is on its back the timer starts.

We also want to promote diversity in robot designs so anything we feel gives a particular robot an overwhelming advantage we look at how we can address it.

[cliveb]

As far as I can remember the only FRA meeting this year was at Whitwick and as this was before the f/w UK Champs any change to the pit rule was not discussed by the members.

So it therefore cannot have been debated by the members and as such the FRA rules as per the Ruleset should have been applied,for the H/W Championship,regardless of any personal belief.

[swanaldo]

It robbed us of a competition win at Brentwood a few years back. I have always favoured the rule if your in the pit your out. It's how it was and its how t should be. RR changed it for their own entertainment simple as that. By the looks of it RR will do their own thing regardless as usual without the guide of the FRA so saying wether it was discussed or not is irrelevant. Jonnos previous post proves that by his attitude putting the audience first. Putting the audience first in the 02 champs instead of employing the 30 second rule and helping Thor off the wall because ( and I quote Jonnos words) the crowd were getting bored. Where was the precious 30 second rule there.

At Robotslive 1 of the first questions I asked Alan was if he was using the 30 second pit rule that RR use and his reply was a simple no.

The 30 second pit rule * and it should stay as it was .... Your pitted your out.

[psycho_fling]

edited

[craig_colliass]

Firstly this wasn't discussed by me. when was it agreed what happens with the feather weights, affect the Heavies? why aren't the published rules modified if this is now the case? If flippers can get out of your little pit sort out your arena don't change the law for everyone!!

Robot Wars is DEAD and partly because the program directors ignored the written rules, I for one am glad It's dead! This is now, and what happened in the past doesn't have to be enshrined in some reverent impenetrable law.

Flippers have had the run of wins before and after this rule if you want to stop short fights and them winning all the time. have the fight caged. I can't see how you can argue for diversity and the same breath say Seraph and Gabriel can't use the facility they were designed to have.

[cliveb]

Regardless of personal preference and opinion,if its in the rules until they are changed,those are the rules.As far as I am aware Robots Live let you get out of the pit at their events as well.

[robotwars]

Heres some facts....

RL employ a 10 second pit rule, so they have been doing what they want too. Alan DOESNT aggree with the rule that was made about you're in the pit and your out, and also AGGREES for his show the crowd go mental when a robot gets out, and that its GOOD for our shows ! I spoke to him this morning about it.

Swanny its not that RR will do whatever, RL have been doing the same, we both need to protect our shows and make sure people come back and watch it or no one gets to play with their robots, i have followed the rules set out, and they have been posted above, there is no mention of if your in the pit your out, that has never been the rule to my knowledge.

What i have a problem with is rules being made without discussion, or at least a discussion between a begrudged roboteer and the chairman of the FRA is so powerful it got a rule changed. I havent heard anyone stand up and say they were consulted !

i spoke to 1 of the 3 people of the governing body and he explained there was NO discussion before the event, and the first he knew about the rule change was actually at the UK champs event.
He also told me he didnt know I'd been told i wasnt doing the FRA UK champs either which is interesting.

James, If a robot got out, and Venom lost, it wasnt a wrong decision, its what the rules state. I dont see how this stops diversity in robots, take the Saint... built to get out of the pit, thats diverse. You could build an anti pit device for venom, thats diverse, or how can this new rule promote diversity?
Everyone knows ive tried to stop the flippers dominating and ive spent time evolving the arena. Wires, moving it close the the backwall, and it has made a massive difference. Alan has now jumped on board too with his wires. If you dont like flippers dominating in your arena... do what ive done, do what alans done and invest some time changing your arena, make the pit deeper, increase the walls of your arena, dont keep it the same! its worng to change the rules because you dont like it.
Andy kane tried to do the same, Kan Openers tactic is put people in the pit, so yeah he didnt like it if they got out and he tried to force the pit rule, but thats evolution of robots.

There's an underlying issue here which has always been here and that is the FRA and communication.

Im a major EO, was never involved in any discussion about changing a rule, and even then there should be a period of time before rules are changed.
Spoken to alan the other major EO, and he wasnt asked about it, and doesnt aggree with it.

Is it any wonder i have a reluctancy about the FRA and follwoing what they say, and i know im not alone.

John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.uk

[james...venom]

As I recall judging guidelines were discussed with the eo's for which the pit was a part of it? I am not saying that it has been changed but that it was being look into for the uk champs.

I am begrudged because my opponent didnt show mobility on its wheels for 50 seconds and was not counted out because it was a flipper and given benefit of the doubt which included being unable to selfright and being in the pit. Ive no problem with the guys or their robot at all its just the way 2 different bots are judged.

Why should EO's always be the ones that have to invest in adapting the arenas when there is nothing wrong with them. With out major work raising the whole inner arena we cant get a deeper pit, it makes sense to look at new ruling especially when there is no current rules on the pit specifically. We should adapt the rules to make the sport go in the direction we need it to go, not adapt or keep rules to suit the current robots out there. If we do the sport will dwindle and gradually fade out. Im all for brining FW down to 10kg.

Absolutely agree we want to encourage innovation like seraphim, an excellent machine. We just look at what robots have it easiest and then look at how we can even out the advantages as any 'sport' would do. I think this is where we are all struggling. RR & RL run events to entertain and put on a good show where as RC put on a sporting event where we feel gives us a different approach.

[robotwars]

So if it was in the pit for 50 seconds trying to get out, it should have been deemed immobile surely ? Why wasnt it?

The current rule would cover that wouldnt it???

John