Didnt say they were toys, nobody said scrap the rules, And again I didn't say it shouldn't be tested, I said personally I think its pointless for the reasons iv already stated. And when the ram is fired in a safe environment (the arena) Nothing should be exploding in anyone's face and injuring anyone. I'd be happy to have it tested like I said. Nobody's taking a macho stance iv already said robots should be safe and wouldn't want anyone to get injured. You know what your talking about I know, you have been on the robot wars / combat robot scene longer than I have. The subject should just be dropped, chances are its going to end up going nowhere and be like all other similar subjects that pop up on the forum and end up with constant arguing and go nowhere.