Ok,
Im going to think about the two teired system.... and look at the seedings from the champs and see who falls into what !!
Think it might be interesting to try,
:-)
John
My opinion probably isn't the most valid in this thread as I don't have a working hw but when major tom is rebuilt it will be a rambot and I do feel that the hw class is dominated by the fp flippers, they do put on a great show but seperate classes fighting eachother would be interesting to watch too rather than putting a rambot in with 2 or 3 fp flippers and it beeing oota'd within the first 30 seconds. the limited gas idea sound good and would give the other types of bot a bit more of a chance
Although I haven't built a heavyweight I still have some ideas about this.
I feel that robots have become too reliable so I is hard to beat them with an electrical/mechanical fault, armour has also become too strong to make it possible to attack other robots and get through the armour especially without spinning weapons.
There could be a limit on armour thickness but I doubt that will happen, I think there shouldn't been an out of the arena instead robots could be thrown around until they break - but again this is unlikely to happen due to reliable technology.
It is also hard to make fights interesting without powerful spinning weapons but I see why these cant be used.
Watching some powerful flippers is interesting and impressive but when all the robots are flippers it gets boring, but there are very few other effective weapons and the few which are effective tend to be expensive. I don't know how heavyweight competitions work so this most probably already happens but, I think it is important to make sure everyone gets the same amount of fights no matter how well they do to make the events worth going even if your robot won't win.
You could also have separate trophies/prizes for different categories of robots so an axe bot still gets first place axe bot (or non flipper) even if it got beaten by a flipper.
Would love to see a 2 tier system, as I know that if Eric was drawn against something like Thor it would be absolutely ripped to shreads, as Alan mentioned earlier, it is from a different generation. That would probably stop me entering it into the UK Champs entirely, as it wouldn't even be repairable damage. On the other hand though, you've got to think of the audiences, would they want to see bots that are possibly inferior fighting it out? Maybe if it makes the fights longer/more even then they would, and also might bring more people out to play.
I'm personally looking forward to the possibility of seeing seeing Eric vs Storm Force in the summer
ok, ive been doing some more thinking... and I think there is a flaw to this thread, and actually I dont think the issue is the FP Flippers at all.
it was inspired by craigs posts about loosing his mojo... about not being motivated.. however i dont think its because he doesnt have a FP flipper, he even said he could have won all the fights and would still feel the same, I think he just likes building unique robots... thats great, but we are in the world of ROBOT COMBAT and we build to fight, and build to win and entertain !
It is a competition at the end of the day... Robot Wars was about winning with the tools, and we have adapted to the set of rules we work with now.
I think the only issue is that the top robots are getting good, and possibly leaving the lower robots behind... we are all pushing each other to improve ...it doesnt matter what weapon they have, they are good.
For example...There is a standard now where your robot shouldnt breakdown in a fight, the top robots are built to such high standards that it is very unusual to see them break in the arena, they have either been battered by thor, driven / pushed in the pit, or flipped out !
The thing is being brutal, if people are getting beaten, build better robots, thats what we do, we build robots. Its like a marathon runner.. he wont win a race unless he trains, but shouldnt complain others keep beating him because they train harder !!
There are a lot of older robots being rebuilt...and people can build new fresh cheap robots... what these people can do.... is choose which white board fights they go in if they dont want to fight the top robots, We can allow white board fights to be organised by roboteers, get a group together who want to fight and fill it !!
John Bell built batter bot.... it entered events and entertained, it was polycarb, a bit of steel and two wheel cheair motors... didnt get killed !
Ive taken the list of robots coming to barnsley and added a few others who are active regularily....
Beast - FP Flipper
Corkscrew - Nothing
Double Action - FP Axe / Flipper with a difference
Eruption - FP Flipper
Maelstrom = FP Flipper with a difference
Meggamouse - LP Flipper
Mr Nasty - Nothing
Ripper - FP Flipper
Scorpion = Electric Axe
Stinger - Tail
Stormforce - LP axe and flipper
Steel Avenger - LP axe
Tilly - FP Flipper
Toon Raider - LP Flipper
Toxic - FP Flipper
Xterminator - not sure
Iron Awe 5 - FP Flipper
Iron Awe 6 - FP Flipper
Preditor - LP Flipper different
Thor - LP Axe
Scorpion - Electric Axe
Fortis - Nothing
Kronic - FP Flipper
Merlin - FP Flipper different
UFO - LP front hinge flipper
Envy - LP front hinge flipper
Full Tilt - Electric lifter
FP Flippers conventional = 7
Nothing = 3
Other / Unique = 6
LP Flipper = 5
Axe = 6
So I dont think there is an issue with FP flippers dominating at all, there is the variety in the show already !!
Personally, I can't afford the money it takes to compete with FP flippers and axes that would easily destroy the 1-2mm stainless on Eric's Ali space frame. So if you're looking to encourage these bots back asking people to spend loads more money on their bots possibly isn't the way to go. I agree that its not just FP flippers though, its just the more powerful bots. Don't have quite the same amount of publicity as RW had after all.
As for the metaphorical marathon runner, its maybe more like a marathon runner with one leg, rather than running in the olympics maybe the Paralympics would be better suited where there is a more level playing field.
EDIT: Just saw the pun in that last sentence, I can assure you all it wasn't intentionalOriginally Posted by Anttazz
Maybe at somewere like barnsely with quite a lot of older bots attending, they could designate a fight specifically for the old classic bots? That way they can get back in the arena and fight with competitors on their own level???
Personally, I feel that there should be a few fights just for classic/older bots to encourage the older bots to come back out, however, I don't really see a problem with the FP flippers and the ultra competetive bots, for me it's about having fun, I'm not to bothered if I lose, so therfore don't have a problem about going up against the best robots out there. At the end of the day, it's all about having fun, both for the roboteers and the audience, so as long as all robots get a chance to fight, I don't really think that the current situation is a problem.
An interesting discussion, been enjoying reading it. I'm not an active heavyweight roboteer but have been having a think about the matter.
The way I see it, the issue that is the source of many of the 'oh look, all flippers' comments on Youtube vids and so on is that flippers don't come across distinctly as FP and LP. They're just...flippers. So while the FP flippers may be dominating and at the top, two FP flippers fighting two LP flippers is seen as four flippers fighting.
I don't know what the attendance list for Dublin was, nor have I watched that many videos, but how many robots (besides Puck) didn't have flippers as weapons?
The flipper is the best design type for the current environments in which we fight, but I find many HW fights boring to watch on Youtube if it's just flippers. If there's a hint of Thor or Big Nipper (or something unique) in there it will be more likely to catch my attention but often it is flippers galore. However, the abundance of flippers is probably more noticeable in the heavyweight class because of the absence of spinners.
My point? Not really sure!
I reckon the comments are based more on flippers in general rather than FP specifically, but to be honest, there's not a lot that can be done to change that, except for people taking the plunge and building more interesting (if less competitive) robots. The two-tier system sounds interesting and a potential encouraging point for those with less robust robots. Whether it would discourage 'boring' fights or flipper-based comments on Facebook/Youtube I don't know. But I'm not going to criticise the plan anyway as it's still an attempt to rebalance things and level the playing field, which is something that should be appreciated.
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