thoughts ???

[Mouldy]

Reason i dont bother with heavyweights anymore;

mostly hardox flippers.... gets boring
People cry when they take a bit of damage IF they havent got hardox because they need there robot working for the next week...

The last HW event i went to, everyone had a flipper...apart from craig.

the only way to get proper diversity would be to get a heavyweight arena capable of taking big weapons...fighting against people who dont mind taking damage....but that wont happen due to the costs of building an arena to take the hits....and the people who cry about taking damage will stop turning up.

[psycho_fling]

i know im not from the hw camp but i think these are still relevant points, throughout fw building i have always chosen a new weapon type for my next bot, lifter, pusher, crusher, and next an axe personlly i built the crusher becuase there weren't many about so wanted to be a bit different similar with the axe

also i personally dont mind taking damge to a certain degree, BOW was built kinda for that purpose to be cheap and easy but resillant but after ever fight it would look like it had actually been in a fight. Like swanny i'm choosing not to use hardox for my axe bot one becuase its quite expensive but again to say i use something different to hardox and hdpe

i have had a little dabble in hw s with the help of jonno, the destructo bot experiment which did work well but needs improvement to be a success, and when it works (JONNO) i get to drive stinger, driving that is an expierence a fun expierence as wild driving is the key to make it work or hit anything plus it makes a massive booming noice if you miss

i suppsoe it's like any weight class if you were to build a hw as a new person you'd start at the basics, then build it up. the issue to overcome is to build the first 'version' good enough so it's not a total right off after one weekend.

i personally feel motivated to build robots and have done ever since entering the sport 7 years ago......just wish i had chance and oppurtunity to do build work ......uni

mr marler

[mattsdragons]

my opinion is probably not the most valid but ill give it anyway

all the flippers etc are great and all, its fun to see the bots get chucked about and hear all the crashes when they hit the ground but it seems like some of the variety has been lost as people think they need a FP flipper for win (i was guilty of this but now i see a little differently)

I've recently acquired SMIDSY (long story) and im getting it running back to how it was in the RW days, disk and all, since if there does come a time that disks can come back or i am alowed to run it at 500rmp as if i do it comes under all the regs (12.5kg and under 18 inch) then i can (though it seems unlikely) yet there is potential to have some variety back

yes we do have non flipper around (thor, THz, cherub, ouck etc etc etc) but ti an extent, the 2012 scene does seem some what dominated by the FP mega flippers

[PJ-27]

FP Flippers suit the situation well.

The arena's have low walls, lots of OOTA area, a small arena space, a crowd that is quite a distance away (so would benefit from OTT robot displays) and a ban on some weapons.

Furthermore, Hardox is a tried and tested material, as is the wedge o' cheese shape, plus internal design dictates how they look. It's unsurprising so many would look similar.

Throw in that most people (and EO's) don't actually want their robots damaged because they have a show to do, you end up with lots of Flippers.

[calumco]

Been reading this with interest,

i started a heavy flipper almost 3 years ago but never ended up finishing it because to be honest i just lost the interest as all it seemed i'd be fighting it against is other flippers. which don't get me wrong isn't always bad but i'd have always loved to take on an axe or crusher for the challenge of winning.

basically me and matt have swapped robots so i now have the grim reaper in my shed because i felt like i wanted something with a bit more of a challenge to get running again and he wanted something easier, so granted i've now got a flipper again lol but for what it was all those years ago it'll be good to take it to a few events a year but mainly take it to expo events to have a play with and put on display.- i'd love to have a fight against tiberius tbh with it. damage is always repairable and tiberius aka sam can happily hold me to that.

seems to me that its either to many boxs for the feather weights or flippers for the heavies, in the feather weights i don't personally mind as im finally getting my weaponed robots about right after years of building them lol but too much of anything would get boring. i remember alan posting about a feather weight fight at robotslive that was all boxes and how boring it was awhile back. but its just how things are. Having had little hitter damage many of my robots, i've been looking forward to fighting it again for a while now as i'd like another go at it now im better with what im building but i havn't been able yet unfortunatly.

with what dave says, pinsor my feather weight crusher i've had people come up to me before telling me not to crush them :S thing is i wouldn't ever ruin anyones robot if i had the chance to just mabye immobilise it. feathers with axes or crushers or whatever i'll have a go at because its exciting for me to try and win rather than win a fight thats a box or flipper fest

[liambryant]

My robot Storm Force as you know is a flipper and axe robot which may not be effective and I may not always at least win a fight, But SF does stick out when attending events with lots of flippers (Not that I think its bad in any way) but I do kind of see where Jonno is coming from.

I come to events really to have good times with robots, have a good laugh with my friends and do what I dreamed about 10 years ago which was being a roboteer.

And also Adam, I'm glad to hear Mute is coming back

[craig_colliass]

This is a very interesting thread thanks for starting it Jonno. I would repeat most of what Shane said.
I Love to see flippers in action as an engineer I can appreciate the work and technical brilliance that has gone into them Iron awe 5 and 6 are to my mind perfect for that particular robot type. well done guys
I come for the fun, knowing I am not going to win any competitions is no problem for me. I design different robots ones that haven't been made like that before. That's what I enjoy.
I do find it boring to lug a robot 200 miles and get it ready for the fight and then last about 15 seconds before Toxic 2 or Kronic fires Saint OOTA from the other side of the stage!!
I don't have much enthusiasm to get the HW going for the start of the year I might get the FW sorted, But that is nothing connected with the robot scene. That is just how I feel at the moment.
A problem is diversity in the types of robots there are working on the scene, I think I have said this on another thread but it may be relevant as far as diversity is concerned.
It is up to the organisers to level the playing field to make other types more competitive, Jonno has gone some way with the catch wires on the sides of the arena. other ways would be to adjust the amount of co2 the robots are allowed to carry so you could have the cannons but the flip must count! or less powerful robots that can turn over a robot (but not flip OOTA) many times. also segregation have HP flippers only fighting other HP flippers and the others fight in separate fights. I think the suggestions should come from all of us but the final decision as to what type of show is put on, is only the concern of the event organisers, after all it's their money on the line.

[robotwars]

thats the reply ive been waiting for from you criag to hear your thoughts.

Your the classic example... genuine nice guy, used to come to every event with your robot, it probably wasnt going to win, but you came to entertain, but i did wonder how long you could go on for without getting bored and now your admitting theres no motivation, but the crowd love saint, the same as they love puck.

Question...
Why not go away and build a flipper... keep saint for entertainment, doesnt even have to be a super power flipper, but something which would be competitive? What is it which stops you building, or is it principles because you dont like flippers.

Swanny is an example of principles getting in the way, he hates hardox, so will go out of his way not to use it, ive had this conversation with him about it... and even though he could build full tilt out of hardox, and it would be as stong as needed to fight thor, why didnt he.. because he doesnt like hardox, not because he cant get it, not because he cant work with it, because he doesnt like the principle of it.

Lets be brutal.. im not one to normally mince my words, there are two classes of robots these days, well always has been but maybe they are getting further apart, theres the super powerful, not all fp flippers, id put thor, big nipper etc in there, they are your maclaran and redbulls...then youve got the lower end robots which either arent as effective, breakdown all the time, some do entertain some dont, the virgin racing teams... ( im not trying to insult anyone, its a fact )

I have considered maybe we should create a two division system based on the results of the uk champs, the seeds etc... at an event we do split them up and 1st rounds the robots are split... start with the lowers 2 fights 2 winners, then the full powers 2 fights 2 winner, and then the 4 winners go into the final i think it would be quite good... but what it does is put a lable on the not so good robots.... how would people feel about that..?

So if cherub and saint werent fighting ripper iron awe etc in the first round ... they could win... or they may still loose but generally they would have a better chance !!

Doesnt it inspire people to rebuild and improve their robots to get to the top, thats what we have done at the top, thats how we got there, we all had robots and have worked to improve them over and over again not just luck !

Double Action is an example of what can be built... Ive built something outside the box... and its my challenge to get it working.... it will start off in the lower division but i would expect it to start to win fights in the near future !! If its not winning fights by october then i would say ive failed... im building a fighting robot, not something to just be fodder.... but a serious contender!

Interesting thoughts though!!

[blazerbotics]

I have thought about some sort of 2nd tier, mainly to get some of the old machines back fighting. Alot of the teams don't want to fight anymore as they know their robots can't take the hits from the axes or the big flips, as they are basically an older generation, there was the perfect example of this last week in Dublin. But its how do we split the machines and what we do with them once we have the divisions.

[craig_colliass]

I know it is hard for the driven Roboteers to understand but I really don't mind not winning. as I said in the previous post the lack of enthusiasm is not connected with the robot scene how things are done or anyone in it. It's just me I could have won every fight last year and still feel like this!

I don't mind what robot I build next as long as no one has made anything similar before I like to invent, it's the buzz,with flippers this is quite difficult as this type of weapon has been the focus of lots of research but if an idea comes into my head I will.
For example I have devised a new electric axe mechanism I am trying on the next feather If it works ok I may put it on a HW. also thinking about Magnetic weapons!

Using your Formula 1 analogy I would agree there is a division between robot types flippers being the best suited for the arena (Formula 1) environment. my point is change the environment and you change the winners if F1 cars had some off road, hill climb. desert sections I may be wrong but I would think they would not come first every time.

But as previously stated the event organisers are the ones to dictate this, and that is the way it should be for reasons stated in the last post.