*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

[typhoon_driver]

nope although we should find out soon because the financial year ends today so hopefully well all have an answer within the next few weeks

[mc_blue]

I thought that Tornado had already used the ACW cage against Razer in the American TNN series? It won there - hence why the Razer team were not as surprised as you may have expected. In addition, they did have a solution to the ACW - the hook on the end of the crusher.

Although there have been some really bad decisions in Robot Wars none of them compare to the farcical state of some Battlebots JDs.

[kaideejee]

Has anyone got a link to info about, or a pic of the ACW cage? I keep hearing about it but I cant think how a device such as this might work on an invertible robot.

Cheers

-- Kev

[fluppet]

MC: Yup, it was used in the TNN series, and (according to the Razer site at the time) the decision was a bit of a farce - although Razer got pushed around, the ACW spinner was disabled. The judges were under the impression that the motor lying on the floor was from Razer - actually it was from the ACW. This is from memory and going off what was on Vinnys site; Ive not seen the fight, so please dont take this report as gospel.

So yes, team Razer had seen the ACW before season 6, and they had the hook ready, but I believe (and again this is from memory of a year or two back) they were told after the TNN fight that the cage wouldnt be allowed again, so I suspect the hook was an afterthought. Team Tornado generously allowed them time to weld it on, and Ive got nothing against the conduct of Andrew & co, but the reports on Vinnys site at the time would certainly imply that they werent aware that they would be needing to counter the ACW again. (That being the fault of the judges, not anyone else - team Tornado brought weapons just in case and things like the anti-spinner weapon *were* disallowed.) My understanding was that they were told the same after Season 6, which may or may not have affected the Extreme 2 performance (although smoking motors probably affected the final - after the concession - result more).

All this is from hazy memory, so apologies to anyone Im misrepresenting.

--
Fluppet

[fluppet]

Kev: there might be a picture somewhere on the Tornado site. Its effectively a rail set halfway up the side of Tornado, supported by some struts coming off the body. The gap between the rail and the body is intended to exceed the reach of Razers beak (although I believe they got some scratches in at the limit). A horizontal spinning bar is mounted at the front of the frame.

When it was first mentioned I presumed it was something the beak couldnt reach over; its not - its just something which (not having any solid structure) is hard for Razer to do any damage to, and keeps the crusher away from the more delicate parts of the robot proper. If Razers beak incorporated a cutting part in the angle of the jaw (think jaws of life, or wire cutters) the cage could probably be dismantled - it would be a poor weapon against Aggrobot, for example. As is, its quite effective - especially since, once it was hooked, Razer tried to push Tornado (which wedged in the arena floor); my feeling is that pulling would have been more effective, but perhaps I should stay out of it until I have a robot with a combat record comparable to Razers. :-)

Because the height of the spinner is less than half the height of Tornado, the robot is still invertable, although I dont believe its been flipped while using it.

--
Fluppet

[kaideejee]

Cheers for that - I found some pics on the tornado site (admittedly of the cage post-battle-trashing) and now Ive got a much better idea what youre all talking about.

-- Kev

[codename_47]

Well, if Tornado was fighting a flipper, they wouldnt have the ACW on, as its only for crushers...

Thats what I thought the Razer hook was for actually, to try and use the Razer arm to allow it to flip Tornado....which Im not sure would work upside down with the cage on...

Oh well, without Razer its all moot now....and without RW, VERY moot Im afraid!!

Word of the day: Moot!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[fluppet]

I think the hook was just to get the wheels off the ground - which it did very well (even if the subsequent attempt to push was less effective). At the right angle the entire frame can be lifted (as in season 6), in which case an OOTA might have worked - hook under the body, using the ACW as leverage.

For dragging the ACW, Im surprised the rear-facing hooks on Razers spine werent effective - I thought thats what they were there for, and by lowering the snoot and driving under the cage Id have thought Razer could get inside it and start chewing on Tornado proper. But hey, since my driving isnt up to Ians standards (probably - the old can you drive a car?/I dont know, Ive never tried thing) Im not really in a position to suggest tactics.

Its true Tornado probably wouldnt have the ACW against a flipper, although it would definitely make it harder to flip all the way over (although the ground clearance would be a bit of a problem). Might happen in a multi-way fight, though. Id have thought the spinner was low-profile enough that Tornado would still be invertible.

More of a moot point since the ACW is illegal in Robot Wars now. Mind you, it might get used against other crushers in an FRA event (given an arena which can take the spinner) which would be interesting.

--
Fluppet

[bobblebot2]

Like andrew said tornado wouldnt have the ACW against anyone now