Encouraging International Competition / Harmonizing Rules

[madoverlord]

Read the mention of the international competition this August, and started thinking of bringing over a bot or two from here in the colonies.

After reading the UK rules there are a couple of things that could be done to make it easier for US robots to compete, that might be worthy of discussion.

US rules can be found at http://www.botleague.com/http://www.botleague.com/

1) Featherweight weight class differences. Here in the US FW is 30lbs, not 12 kilos. Not much that can be done about that, I fear, and thats why God created hole saws.

2) Radio problems. Having to buy a whole new tx/rx for one comp is onerous. Some sort of way to borrow radio kit would be great. Needless to say this could work both ways.

3) Indicator lights & Failsafes. There are some differences between UK and RFL rules here. We both need a visible main power light, but the rules about receiver lights and failsafe lights are different. Basically, in the US, only a main power light is required, but you must demonstrate that the bot fails safe if either the radio signal is lost or the receiver dies.

4) Removable links. This is the biggie. Most US robots do not use removable links because they are too unreliable and are also considered more dangerous. The preferred method is a switch such as the Team Whyachi switches (http://www.teamwhyachi.com/http://www.teamwhyachi.com/), which activate using several turns with a hex wrench. They simply cannot pop out, and you can construct a tool that mounts the hex wrench on as long a handle as you desire, so they permit you to disable the robot from a very safe distance.

Just some food for thought.

[jeremy_cuss]

Robert,

Im sure others will reply about about your points 1-3, so I will concentrate on the point that you make about the differences between US and UK rules on removable links. I think that we, in Britain, have got hung up about needing to show the link removed. Would it not be as good if the power light did not come on with the transmitter and receiver both on? Of course you can think of ways to fool the scrutineers, but that could be done now, and never is. As far as I know everyone does their best to obey the rules as written.

I do know that on Robot Wars 7 almost every week one robot was immobilised because the link came out or became loose.

Perhaps it is time for the FRA to have another think about this rule.

Jeremy

[teamchip]

Some good points Richard.

have no idea about the rules in the US...will read that URL link when I can.The removable link though ...the one you describe sounds better re the way it cant come out but at least with a totally removable link you have a visable sign that the bot is dead. It is handed in to transmitter control so there is NO WAY you can make your bot active in the pits without permission...plus if it does pop out in a fight it at least fails to safety...annoying re losing the fight I know, but at least the bot is definately dead.

The frequency thing...not sure what it is in the states (72? 75? Mhz) but there are some radio sets like the Futaba FF7 (like we use) and much more modern sets than this that use interchangeable RF modules ...I have a 40mhz one in the transmitter for robot stuff and a 35mhz one for model aircraft stuff. I agree though you would still have to buy a different receiver.

Hope you can make it over here.

Tom

[blazerbotics]

1. how many feathers are there in the US? also how many would make the trip across? im assuming only those with heavyweights will. Obviously reducing your weights by 1.6kg is alot of work for you, and the only thing most of us could do is add extra armour without rebuilding the robot and considering most of us have spent alot of time/money getting them to 12kg, im sure people wont be too pleased.

2. most roboteers have spare radio sets, im sure agreements could be made before the event to borrow peoples.

3. Only a power light is needed, the failsafe and Rx supply are advisory only.

4. Tricky subject, by allowing you key switches should we allow UK robots to use them? But why should we then allow your robots to use them when we have been banned? I suppose its a matter of opinion, i dont mind, providing the switch is safe and reliable. I cant understand why so many peoples links fall out, our link, you have to use both hands to get it out!

[jim]

This is a good argument in favour of allowing 802.11 remote control - so far as Im aware the same equipment is legal to use on both sides of the pond and in other countries.

Personally I like the idea of removable links; I know when Ive got the link in my back pocket that my robot is safe(r) to work on. I can see advantages to something that can be deactivated by a tool on a long pole - a hook on a stick could work as well on removable links, but as Alan says the 175A connectors often require quite a bit of force to remove.

[blazerbotics]

Hella key switches were banned over here due to the posibility of the key being snapped off during a fight, and ending with no way to shut down the robot. I much prefer the links as they are so simple, and if the right ones are used, then they wont come out.

[babeth]

I prefer removable links to fixed switches. We all know what kind of weird damage a robot can get during a fight and in my opinion a fixed switch can be damaged far more easily than a removable link. With the removable link the ultimate tool is a crowbar (ask Derek Foxwell) but what do we do with a snapped switch ?

The other points: frequency, lights, weight of featherweights... that is exactly why the Dutch and other European roboteers abide by the rules established by the FRA. We want as little confusion as possible. But we all know that the USA have more differences in respect to -say- tools and industrial standards than you would think and that there will always be problems. What you need then is an international agreement regarding each others rules when international battles take place. That is the only option.

(The worst example would be like asking USA soldiers to swith to Kalishnikows because all guerilla and terror soldiers use them... stupid no ? Exactly my point.)

[fwsorg]

At featherweights.org we had a small debate about the 12kg/30lb limit, trying to decide if we shoudl move to 30lb. It wasnt met with too much excitment, the main arguement being that people arnt particularly likely to hop over the pond to battle featherweights. However, I think with the sport becoming more international (although with the robotic olympiad claiming it was truly international yet having no UK fighting robots competing to my knowledge) I think it is justifyable to re-opne the debate. Perhaps a large MSN meeting one saturday night of featherweight builders? It would be good to get some US builders involved in such a debate aswell, as us getting to know them and vice versa can only be a good thing. Thoughts?