Congratulations Typhoon

[big_nipper]

Typhoons Quilifying match was between us, a flipper(EWE2 I think) and a massive fibreglass robot with a disc (sorry carnt remember its name). Fight started we headed stright for typhoon and hit it before it started to spin up (Lucky us). The disc stopped and typoon wasnt going anywhere fast so we left it and went for the other disc. It got pushed into the side and the disc came off. Typoon moved a few inches and the disc started to spin ever so slightly so we rammed it again. Tried to turn it over but every time we went under it we slid to one side. Gary said that the inside was spinning instead of the disc after the fight. We the drove to the other side of the arena where both back wheels jammed up (1st and only time since) and we came to a stop. The flipper then got under typhoon and turned it over and was the last one running.

All 4 robots got through to the wars.

Another interesting point is that the MASSIVE fibreglass robot was orginially not allowed to run as it was 5cm over the width limit. In the pits they got an hacksaw and cut it down to size .

Ian, Im sure you were the flipper. Only one to flip typhoon. Can you confirm this?

Oh and well done Typhoon and Storm II for one of the best finals Ive seen.

[typhoon_driver]

raging reality has flipped us in the past and the fibre glass robot was called araknia

[fluppet]

Julian - this is where Im back to my list of whacky how to beat Typhoon ideas. I think spikes are asking for trouble - even if youre not impacted by the teeth, Typhoon will have a lot of inertia; you may gash the shell but youd probably lose the teeth too. Not sure how thick the shell is above the ring, but Im guessing its sturdy enough that slicing it away isnt going to work. Something enormous, like Kan-Openers jaws, could disable it - but even then the jaws were damaged, and its not clear that T2 would have been unable to spin, given the chance.

Unfortunately, it appears that my suggestion of rolling along the outside of T2 and shoving them into a wall (or pit, or CPZ) isnt going to work if the director allows them to spin up again afterwards. :-(

As for an extended flipper - something like T-minuss extension for use against Hazard? Itd have to be extremely strong to lift a heavy as a cantilever, and since T2s teeth are so low to the ground its hard to avoid being clipped - although a bit of chamfering might help.

On the other hand, any wedge which *does* get under without sustaining too much damage has the benefit that as T2 tilts (not that it will, much, with the gyroscopic effect) its teeth will hit the arena floor and fling it sideways. A hard bash from above might be interesting from this point of view.

It does seem that the best approach is just to be built very solidly and never let them spin up, though (then pit them or feed them to the house robots, rather than trying to break them - theyve got unusually good armour even when stationary) - and thats hardly news when it comes to fighting spinners. Still not quite clear why Ed felt Storm could afford to pick its moment to attack and let T2 spin up - regardless of the solidity of the robots, this approach means T2s attack is concentrated by the teeth, which cant be a good thing (unless the idea was that T2 could put more energy into itself than Storm could). The panel which came off did get a ding on the corner from T2 (corners not good against spinners), which implies to me a problem with the strategy.

If team Storm ever manage to build a hydraulic crusher into *this* robots removable weapon bay, that would stand an interesting chance - stop the spin with the base, then chew (although its not really the shape for it). Doubt Razer would have stood a chance, though. If Storms lifter gets extended that would have made all the difference, so I suspect thats a more likely development route if Ed wants to be more sure of a win next time.

Gary should, of course, be complimented that Im spending all this time trying to find a way to defeat that particular robot (and class of robots). To be fair to Ed, Im almost as concerned about how to beat Storm 2, although a very low flipper with automated activation when somethings over it would seem a good start.

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Fluppet

[typhoon_driver]

andrew i am very complemented that you are taking the time to come up with ideas to defeat little ol me. although just a small note, we doubled the titanium on the shell after the kan opener incident and even that didnt get through our second shell underneath. It would be interesting to see the ideas that you came up with if you were able to crawl around the inards of typhoon 2 so to speak. Im glad that there are new people who are starting to build and have so many ideas because if theres one thing that this sport can never have enough of, its people with gd imagination.

[mark_m]

I think the way to beat Typhoon would be with an undercutter type spinner design. With the majority of robots in RW not having skirts this could be a very effective weapon, if not slightly dull. (chop bottom of wheels - robot stops moving - you win, obviously its never as simple as this though). Id be interested to know if Storm could fit in a weapon like this.

Mark

[pcbore]

I dont think an axe or vertical crusher would be useful against Typhoon because of its shape. Id expect those kind of weapons to just slide down it than do any real damage.

[mc_blue]

The undercutter weapon that Mark mentions has certainly been successful in the past. Note the fight between Ziggo - also a FBS and Code:BLACK. Certainly a surprise.

[codename_47]

Bigger Brother also managed to flip Typhoon in the first round, probably thanking all possible dieties that it didnt spin up in the melee!!

Im not sure a flipper, even if it did get under Typhoon, would be helpful, due to the gyroscopic effect of the spinner keeping it from being turned over. A powerful one may lift it into the air, but it should stay mainly upright...
Hypnodisc showed a similar effect in its fights with Bulldog Breed...any other robot wouldve rolled a few times with the force BB applied to it, but Hypno stayed upright!

And even when stopped, its STILL hard to flip, due to its shape, as Storm 2 demonstrated!

So thats one top class robot all round, well done to all envolved with our first Spinner champion!

[fluppet]

(The problem with writing long posts while trying to look like youre doing work is that other people post while youre doing so... :-) )

Mark: I was also wondering about that. The thing is, I suspect youd need a lot of reach on a heavyweight, Typhoon has *very* low teeth, and I suspect a very low spinner is inherently problemmatic on a wooden floor (itd skim over the metal floor of the battlebox, but dig in to the arena). Be interesting to see someone try it. Making the wheels hop over the blade (so the reach can be longer) wouldnt be too difficult (for a new robot, not for Storm), and might be a crowd pleaser. Making a blade able to get under Typhoon while strong enough to take out the wheels and survive glancing blows from the teeth would be an interesting challenge! Obviously it wouldnt work so well against robots with solid enough wheels...

The same challenges apply to a very low profile flipper (for which I have a design from which Ill spare you until Ive built it). Such a flipper is less useful against other designs, though, so Im not keen on the idea.

Frank: yes, a crusher would have to pin Typhoon and rely on the point force being enough to get a grip. Its certainly not a foregone conclusion; Id have thought the slope on T2 is shallow enough for this still to work, but I may be wrong, and its hard to tell the exact slope from the TV footage.

Mr Dave: Quite, Typhoon would have been out in the first round if Ian Watts hadnt decided to be sporting. Arent we a nice community that things worked out as they did. :-) (Mind you, there are a lot of robots which would win if only.)

Gary: Glad youre taking it the right way, and well said about encouraging innovation. I would, of course, *love* to poke around inside T2. :-) (Mind you, Id feel obliged also to tell you all my thoughts, which would mean you could counter them... its like chess, with arc welding. Pity Im not *better* at chess, really.) Id still really like to know what T2s shock proofing is - not so I can attack it, but so I can learn from it! Ill be peering at the brief TV footage of T2s innards with interest, as soon as I find time.

Wacky idea number 47: wonder if a really long-armed clamp bot would work. Grip T2 within a second of activate, and attack properly later, while youve stopped it spinning. (Thinking of the hands on the end of extending lattices which are popular in cartoons.) Hmm. :-)

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Fluppet