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Thread: Power/failsafe LED

  1. #21
    Guest
    I have 3 leds on gman 2 flashing red for weapons and radio on and a green for the 24v link

  2. #22
    Guest
    So here we have the problem. On WBC green means failsafes on, on GMan, green means link in...

  3. #23

  4. #24
    Guest
    ...and to make it worse, has anyone checked how many of us roboteers are colourblind? Green LED you live... red your ****ed. What about those of us that cant tell the difference?

    Suggestion 1 (could be tricky):

    Red (flashing or constant) = link in (required)
    Yellow = weapon controller live
    Blue = drive controller live
    Buzzer = fault (failsafe failure, etc)

    Suggestion 2 (slightly more simple):

    Label your LEDs

  5. #25
    The colours of the indicators are not the main problem when safety is in question.
    The only thing that matters is whether the robot is safe or not.
    If the power link is IN then the robot is potentially unsafe.
    If it is out and the weapons disabled and locked, then it is safe.
    A lit LED or other indicator proves only one thing, that the LED works and it has power to it.
    It says nothing about the device controlling the LED or its logic state.

    We have all seen the car, with its right indicator flashing, turning left.

    The same applies to robots, what do you do when the link is in and the lights are off? or the lights are on and the link not in?, both indicate that the robot is unsafe, i.e. in just the same state as a robot with its power link in and without any indicators fitted.

    Robot systems are notoriously unreliable at the best of times, even before they are damaged in battle.
    Home made or home installed systems to indicate the state of the power or failsafes are just as liable to failure as the robot they are in.

    I run a robot event each year here in Somerset and work to the following safety guidelines:-

    1. The robot gets a technical inspection to prove it and its failsafes operate correctly when it arrives at my event.
    2. It is only powered up and its weapons locks removed when it is in the arena.
    3. The arena is strong enough to contain it whatever it may do. If the robot is potentially too powerful for my arena, (such as Hypnodisc), then it does not get powered up.
    4.The link is taken out and its weapons made safe before it comes out of the arena.
    5. All tests after repairs are done in the arena and are supervised by me or my appointed deputy.
    6.At no time is a robot powered up in the pits area.
    7.If a robot in the arena does not respond to its controller then it is treated with extreme caution until made safe by some one competent.

    If you stick to these rules then you do not need indicators of unknown reliability.

    I have no problems getting full insurance cover for my events. The insurance company accepts the above rules and my certificated competence from previous work experience.

    This is not meant as any criticism of the FRA rules, I am just pointing out that safety indicators may not be reliable and dont help to make an event safer.

  6. #26
    Guest
    Yeh lets all spend so much time farting about with flashing lights that the machine ends up looking like a christmas tree and nobody knows what any of it means.

  7. #27

  8. #28
    Does the light have to turn off as soon as the link comes out as at present ours does not it take 5-10 seconds to go out after the link is out?

  9. #29
    Sam, I still dont see the need for a power on light.
    If the link is in then the robot is active and possibly dangerous, or some parts of it may be.

    The link should only be in when the robot is in the arena.

    Therefore if the robot is in the arena and its link has been put in then it is dangerous.

    If the link is in and the light off then it still potentially dangerous, even more so because if the light aint working then something is damaged.

    Surely we dont need a light to remind us that we put the link in 5 minutes ago when the robot was put in the arena.

    If a robot stops during a fight and the light is off, then some one may falsely believe that the robot is safe when just the opposite is the true.
    It is in an unknown state, which is more dangerous than when working properly.

    The roboteer who disarms it should be supervised by your event technical expert.


    The failsafe light is also unreliable.

    Unless all the failsafe indicators are tested and approved by some agency similar to British Standards i.e. like a car MOT, and NOT damaged then they too are of questionable value.
    They would have to be MOT tested again every time they MAY have been damaged.

    Such testing by an approved agency would be prohibitively expensive, and the test only valid until the robot next fights or is modified.

    If the indicators are not independently tested and we just rely on the roboteer to say that they work OK then they are no more reliable than the robot.
    A home built indicator is no more reliable than a home built robot.

    I have developed a failsafe indicator as part of my new decoder system, it works 100% in all my tests, but I would not stake my life on it to tell me that a damaged WBC is safe.

    I think that the only answer is to get all competitors at an event to sign a disclaimer that they alone are responsible for arming and disarming their robots.

    An assessment of the robot builder€™s competence should be part of the technical inspection before the robot is accepted at an event.


    If, as an event organiser, you are not satisfied with the robot builder€™s competence to look after any failure then dont let them take part in your event, or have someone on hand who is expert enough to make any robot safe when required.

    This expert should be included by name in your insurance policy, just as named first-aiders are in employers liability insurance.

    As the event organiser, and therefore the person legally responsible for everyone€™s safety, you always have the option to leave a damaged and very dangerous robot in a closed arena until it runs out of power or gas.

    If it on fire it is your decision as to whether to safely extinguish it or not.



  10. #30
    Guest
    My first event of the new season and with my new power and weapons active lights i and the roaming robots crew new exactly that every thing was powerd up and ready. and i am all for it just as a warning if nothing else

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