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Thread: Robot Wars Series VIII - Week 3 Discussion

  1. #11

  2. #12
    I'm reading this thread with interest because a lot of opinions are being shared and no one is "abusing" peoples views. I don't usual bother with posting my own opinion because i cannot find the time to place a decent argument for my views, but i get the feeling everyone is quite friendly so i'll post a few thoughts into the mix to see what comes of it.

    As a first time builder the show format currently doesn't appeal to compete at this time, but i am still going to build and try to be ready in the next 2 - 3 months. I expecting to have my "remains of my bot handed to me "

    I'd like to see a few things to even out the playing field and make the "sport" both entertaining but also provide more achievement in winning..

    Battles should be determined live, so there is no "pre Determined fights " that way everyone needs to be ready to fight and you draw who you draw. ..

    * Material Thickness and type limits, no titanium no military armour ( winners based on funding are not winners imo )
    Some robots are so hard that there is no visible damage most of the time, or if there is, it is poorly represented in the show.

    * No Pit - it doesn't show someone is a better driver, generally i've views most people ending up in the pit and bad luck or a matter of circumstance and we lose good robots to it for no reason ending in a shorter battle.

    * Minimum Run times of 5 minutes, make the battles result in a clear winner, unreliable robots are untested robots no ? 3 minutes seems too short to do any actual damage or disable it by a single drop or impact.

    * Music was brought up in the thread ? ..... Neither my Wife or I noticed its absence ! We both agreed this is the most interesting RW's has ever been.


    I hasten to add its only a view, but having watched years of RW i do see a lot of things i think could be improved, but then if everyone was perfect 100% of the time it would be life F1.. a precession and boring and loose its appeal.

  3. #13
    R9000's Avatar
    Roboteer

    [To Bigsi]
    What's odd is that I agree with basically everything you said there. Perhaps not to the same extent, but I can definitely see where you're coming from. I do agree that there was not enough emphasis put on the work that went into the robots, or the ingenuity behind them. That said, I don't think there's a huge improvement this time. And now you mention it, the points system definitely does lessen the extent to which the show can control the placings of the robots in the heat final. It is, in that way, a better and fairer system. I don't know about Craig, for me the show never felt like it was about him, and he always at least seemed somewhat interested and engaged with the roboteers themselves. I think what ideally needs to be found is a balance between entertainment value, and respect and support for the Roboteers in the show and their machines. Honestly, man of science that he is, I think Dara could offer more insight than he currently seems to when he's talking to the teams, and perhaps if he stays on for further series he will. I think it's just difficult to get a presenter who is knowledgeable and enthused with the sport, but also excitable and energetic.
    Anyway, thanks for your post, I can definitely see where you're coming from now.

  4. #14

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by katch View Post
    As a first time builder the show format currently doesn't appeal to compete at this time, but i am still going to build and try to be ready in the next 2 - 3 months. I expecting to have my "remains of my bot handed to me "
    Wrong mindset if you ask me. It's the job of the team to hand the remains of the opponents machines to them.

    I'd like to see a few things to even out the playing field and make the "sport" both entertaining but also provide more achievement in winning..
    Several ideas are being used around the world. The German raptor class started like that, and the Aussie Sportsman class has the same basic idea.


    Battles should be determined live, so there is no "pre Determined fights " that way everyone needs to be ready to fight and you draw who you draw. ..
    Robot Wars is a TV SHOW, not a sportsmatch.

    * Material Thickness and type limits, no titanium no military armour ( winners based on funding are not winners imo )
    Some robots are so hard that there is no visible damage most of the time, or if there is, it is poorly represented in the show.
    Wanna bet I can find armor materials that ain't military, nor expensive?
    Also, buying new stainles steel can be more costely than scrounging Ti from Ebay.
    And how do you quantify cost in the end? Is that with working time included?

    * No Pit - it doesn't show someone is a better driver, generally i've views most people ending up in the pit and bad luck or a matter of circumstance and we lose good robots to it for no reason ending in a shorter battle.
    Full sidewall to avoid OOTA's too then. In the end everybody will build US style machines.

    * Minimum Run times of 5 minutes, make the battles result in a clear winner, unreliable robots are untested robots no ? 3 minutes seems too short to do any actual damage or disable it by a single drop or impact.
    That just battery size.And that costs weight and money.

  6. #16
    R9000's Avatar
    Roboteer

    Katch, I agree with a lot of the reasoning behind what you say, but perhaps not as much the suggested solutions. With regards to the pit, my biggest reason for keeping it, is that it provides a pretty much equal means of winning to all robots, and removing it would massively disadvantage many, such as pushers and grabbers like Storm 2 and Big Nipper (though I know both now have interchangeable spinners). What's more, the pit gives even the most weakened mobile robot the chance to win, and keeps them fighting until the end, even with no weapon. That's why I'd want to keep it.

    As for materials, I am certainly no expert in that area, since I haven't really built anything major with anything but HDPE so far. However, not only might it be redundant to limit the expensive tech and armour going into the new bots, I can't imagine it would be easy to police either. You'd have to do almost a full teardown of most bots just to find out whether or not they had illegal components, barring the glaringly obvious. I do see what you're saying though, it's a shame to see otherwise ingenious designs fail because the team doesn't have as much capital and time to invest as the opponents with sponsors and their own metalworking shop. I know there's an element of this 'financial advantage' in all sports, but it'd be nice to at least keep Robot Wars, and combat robotics in general, as accessible and open to newcomers as possible.

    As for Maddox's comment about it being the 'job' of the opponents to hand the remains of your machine to you, I'm not sure it's that simple. Yes it's your job to defeat them, and it should never be against the rules to completely destroy your opponent, but I do think a certain amount of chivalry and sportsmanship should come into play if you truly are dominating them. That is to say, if you know you've won, I'd encourage mercy from the victor, and not unwarranted aggression to the opponent's machine. The pit also helps with this, since if your opponent dumps you in there, I'd see it as a fair way to end the fight whilst protecting you from further damage. I think what hurts a lot of competitors most is not the losing, but the fact that they'd have to completely rebuild their machine after so much work.

    While I'd like longer fights, I'd have to agree with Maddox and say that the batteries really would drain after that, and I have a feeling most battles that were inconclusive after three minutes, would remain so at five, with both robots tiring equally.

    While I agree that RW is a TV show, it's still something of a sport. They've held World Championships before, had a massive cash prize, and honestly I think the closer it gets to a sport, the more respect it will demand. So while entertainment value is still clearly a thing, I do think it needs to maintain the qualities of a sporting atmosphere, as is already in effect between teams in the pits.

    Mostly very valid points though, please let's keep the discussion going if people want, it's great to get so many different viewpoints.

  7. #17
    I agree on the "not totaly destroy the opponent after the machine/team gave up".
    But as long the opponent even tries to fight with the leftovers of the machine, it's fair game.


    On workshops. How do you quantify that into the cost of a robot?
    Or the skills of the teammembers of each team.
    A pro welder , or a electronics genius are "more expensive" than uncle bob and his blue PowerPlus anglegrinder.

  8. #18
    R9000's Avatar
    Roboteer

    Quote Originally Posted by maddox10 View Post
    I agree on the "not totaly destroy the opponent after the machine/team gave up".
    But as long the opponent even tries to fight with the leftovers of the machine, it's fair game.


    On workshops. How do you quantify that into the cost of a robot?
    Or the skills of the teammembers of each team.
    A pro welder , or a electronics genius are "more expensive" than uncle bob and his blue PowerPlus anglegrinder.
    I'm not saying it's something you can quantify or even regulate, but I do think it's important to give newcomers with lower funds a chance against the more expensive and established machines. I don't know how you'd do this, perhaps some kind of regulation of sponsors is something to think about, but it was more of a statement that I agree with the motivation behind Katch's armour idea, just not the practice itself. Of course skills and time and jobs are a lot less quantifiable in terms of the cost of the robot, but I think we're talking about this purely from a funding point of view.

  9. #19
    There really isn't a response a disagree with, my post having re-read it is from a Viewer point of view, and possibly closed minded.
    After reading some of the responses it shows a different mind set from a Participant.

    I think what i meant with Armour more than anything is the Impact surface have a thickness limit, i guess some clever person might support a thinner skin with more bracing, negating the benefit of that rule...

    I did notice a huge amount of bots suffering safety circuit failing ? what are people using that just falls out ?

  10. #20
    R9000's Avatar
    Roboteer

    Quote Originally Posted by katch View Post
    I did notice a huge amount of bots suffering safety circuit failing ? what are people using that just falls out ?
    All too often, a robot's removable link falls out. In case you didn't know, this is literally just a bit of wire between the battery and the rest of the robot's circuitry that is intended to disable it completely for safety reasons. This is intended to be removable from a distance without using any tools, which is why it so often tends to fall out. You are allowed to put a cover over it, but that has to be removable without tools too. Not all countries have this regulation, but as far as I know it's FRA and Robot Wars rules.

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