Pneumatic safety issues

**craig_colliass** · 30th May 2012, 08:26

Rather than taking over the build thread for Flow.

Any comments regarding pneumatic safety can be discussed here from now on please.
A polite reminder this is a public forum, and please ensure everyone keeps to the forum rules,

I myself don't have a pneumatic type robot even though I have training to construct pneumatic systems. I think because of the safety rules driven into my head as an apprentice I just don't feel happy doing it in a combat environment.

Anyway if anyone has comments on this subject please post here.

**team_mute** · 30th May 2012, 11:22

Seems from the other thread that the main thing is build to the rules or let EO decide if robot is ok

**Kenny** · 30th May 2012, 12:29

I have found it an interesting debate going on in the other thread, but it was brought up years ago and it seemed to fizzle out,

Both sides have there points, pressure vessels should be pressure tested , Parts made with over sized material walls etc

My opionion is that the Event organisers have the last say, its there event and there insurance which is being used, if they turn it down its because they have deemed not fit for purpose, these parts arn't being made for commercial use ( Which would after be pressure tested and stamped by law )

if anything which as been in a environment Robotic combat which the parts are used and a chance of damage in every battle the pressure test Certificate is invalid, unless after every battle the parts are tested and given a new certificate ( which could cost hundreds an event )

I could understand if someone made an CO2 bottle and tried to use it without getting that pressure tested because it is pressurized in a Public environment but like above every single co2 bottle should be tested by law after every battle to be deemed safe in a Public environment and nothing as ever been said about this

**kane** · 30th May 2012, 12:54

I think as has previously been mentioned that common sense takes precedence. Systems that are clearly well built are unlikely to pose a problem and are generally allowed to pass. However, as events grow and safety comes under more and more scrutiny these will become more of an issue. The rules are there specifically to cover these points and don't be surprised in the future if you need to bring a folder with you to events.

Of course there is an easy way around this, use off the shelf components. But obviously this stifles the innovation we love to see.

Even off the shelf components are more likely to fail in combat as they are not being used for the purpose for which they are intended. This is the purpose of the arena.

I think what needs looking at is the use of pneumatics/ hydraulics within the pits area as this poses the greatest risk. Event organisers need to ensure they have a robust policy in place to minimise the risk of these elements.

**james...venom** · 30th May 2012, 13:41

As I mentioned in the previous thread. As long as its in the arena we do not see an issue as the environment is designed to take impacts and contain projectiles. If you feel that if your robot were to fail in an arena and its not safe then we should either look at the rules or the arenas.

The pits area is the concern. We appreciate bottles need to be filled up prior to the battle, all the bottles we have seen at our events are commercial bottle which will have been tested previously. As has happened in the past, as soon as a bottle receives an impact the robot no longer complies with the tech check and the bottle gets replaced. This has happened a few times at our events.

The issue I feel is when these bottles are attached to the robots as it is difficult to know if the pressure has been released into other components that may fail. There are 2 ways to stop this. 1 dont let people fit the bottles until the robot is in the arena (i feel is impractical), 2 have some form of indication when when the bottle valve is open so EO's can tell straight away when a robot in the pits has pressure in it. Maybe a pressure switch activating an LED? or a mechanical micro switch which switches an LED when the valve is screwed open?

**maddox10** · 30th May 2012, 14:03

Oh well, there still is basketweaving.

**mightymouse** · 31st May 2012, 11:36

The rules already cover this, dump valves should always be open when in the pits. I only close mine when turning the bottle on in the arena.

Trev

**razerdave** · 31st May 2012, 19:04

And if you have a push-to-dump valve like I do/you did Trevor?

**Mouldy** · 31st May 2012, 21:12

Not a fan of those hold down to vent dumps...

Also Kane can you make sense of this;

9.7.1 Custom Components
Custom made components, or parts operating above the suppliers maximum working pressure, must be
Independently tested and certified at 120% of the maximum system pressure available at that point.

Key word being independently as mario and team mute have said they test there equipment... I don't blame them if they have the gear to do so them self.... But to comply with the rules wouldn't they need a 3rd party to certify there gear? Not just them... But anyone running a compressed gas system be it air or co2, or can we all say we've tested our gear to 120% and give our self a certificate?