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Is this even worth fighting for?
The razer guys reason to not enter an event is up to them, rw is just a compertition, nobody has to enter it and im sure all of you guys have missed an event at some point. the thing that bothers me is that when the razer guys decide for whatever reason they dont want to go to an event everyone is so quick to start nit picking and name them scardy cats. wh yall the fuss???? have you all forgoten that hypno disk wasnt there and hey niether did wheely big chesse. Why all the moaning when its about Razer. I know if i were them i wouldnt want to come back to a community like this.
just my oppinion.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
They draw more fire merely because they get defended and discussed as best ever more often by their fans.
Dont be mislead into thinking theres anything but respect for what theyve built and achieved amongst the builders.. we all know how good Razer was (and possibly still is!), but were also aware that theyre not the be all and end all of the sport..
How many threads are there like this about Hypnodisk? None Im guessing.. Razer fans tend to be more vocal than most!
Karoline.. I dont dislike them as you seem to think! Please stop suggesting I do... far from it, I wish there were far more teams like them out there.. wed certainly get a lot more interesting machines in terms of creativity!
Anyway
Sam
http://www.shredderteam.comhttp://www.shredderteam.com
http://www.robotcrusade.comhttp://www.robotcrusade.com
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Is this even worth fighting for?
James, before putting a staunch post blindly supporting Razer (who was it who said Razer fans were vocal) engage brain - do you actually know why they didnt enter ?
It just came down to financials - in order to offset the risk of being wrecked (and lose their income source), they wanted money. Simple as that. They felt it made more sense not to take the risk that the robot could get damaged and they lost their source of income.
Does that make them scardy cats... - well yes course it does ! They wernt willing to take the gamble and took a lower risk option, thats what being scared is, scared of losing an asset, scared of losing a fight - whatever. Their past performance has shown them to be petrified of taking damage, but thats a side effect of building art bots and theyll be the first to admit it.
While theyre not driving Razer theyre great guys. Ian suffers badly from Red Mist syndrome and has been known to become a very unpleasant character at times as a result, but thats what happens sometimes. As I said, most of the time theyre great guys.
Razer were good - however I think their own memories from the Glory Years says it well. Life moves on. The team has chosen what they want to do in life.
Ed
http://www.stormrobot.comhttp://www.stormrobot.com
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Is this even worth fighting for?
It is mainly because of Razer i came interested in Robotwars, and after seeing them live i was sure i wanted to be in this sport.
When i came to robotwars for the first time 3 years ago, it was for BNN Robotwars, a primairaly dutch competition to be filmed during filming of the UK competition and RW Extreme.
That year i met a lot of british roboteers for the very first time, and of coarse i was full of questions about how they solved issues we had with our robots.
Virtually everyone i talked to, took the time and effort to give me, and the army of dutch/belgian roboteers with me, a good solid answer to all questions, even showing it inside their robots if time and space permitted.
But what i saw the Razer team did really dumbfounded me. I asked the a reasonable simple question about placement of the ram and the motor drive. Not only did they tell me, but they took Razer apart on the spot, pulling all the stuff off they had just finished putting on. Within minutes i was looking down the belly of the beast.
To me that was incredible, and thanks to them and all the other roboteers i now have a much better understanding of fighting robots than i would have if we were just muddling along in Holland.
Right there and then, i knew this was the kind of sport i wanted to be in. Friends outside the arena, opponents inside the arena, but always respectfull of eachother.
And this concludes my mushy lubbydubby feelgood story of the day. :)
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Is this even worth fighting for?
James, the guys of Hypnodisk had a very solid reason, the team of Wheely Big Cheese had theirs, and so did the people of Razer. All these have been discussed ad nauseam on the Robot Wars forum.
But when Razer fans keep on yelling and yelling that their god would win everything people do tend to become a tiny little bit annoyed about that. So it is not the team we snarl at, but the brainless idiots who call themselves fans.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
I think youre being a little harsh there Babeth.
The Razer supporters arent brainless idiots, they are fans in the true meaning of the word i.e. fanatics, and their emotions will always tend to colour their reasoning when it comes to the object of their fanatiticism.
Whilst to me their attitude seems to me to be akin to the My country, right or wrong breed of patriotism, I can understand it to some extent. Were all human, all of us reasoning and emotional. Its getting the balance right thats the difficult part.
Having said all that, I too wish theyd all let the controversy and endless discussion die a natural and speedy death.
(Bother! Writing this hasnt helped that wish at all, has it? :))
Richard
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In my book fanatics are brainless idiots Richard, so are patriots by the way and even my humble self falls for that occasionally so I know what Im talking about. Honesty is a virtue.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
U must have a very unique book Elisabeth
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Ed,
Yes i do know exactly why the razer guys didnt enter, Ian and i are good friends. yes it was partly due to finantials think about it, do a compertition and risk your carrer. whats the point? they allready won it so they couldnt achive any higher. would anybody? no, hypno didnt niether did wheely big chesse ( i belive they didnt enter for the same reason, not too sure though ). I dont see what all your moanings about, if they dont what to enter why should they. They dont think there gods, and they are probably the most down to earth guys around.
If its the fans your annoyed at then moan to them after all they are only fans and not experts in the field.
i just wish some of you would grow up and find some one else to pick at. no wait, why cant you all just be nice???
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Is this even worth fighting for?
I would say that Elisabeths book isnt that different to mine (the english dictionary) it says a fanatic is someone whose enthusiasm is beyond normal limits. Brainless idiot may be a bit strong, but a fanatical approach to things is usually not the wisest of lines to take.
There is obviously a difference between a fan and a fanatic.
Who would ever have expected the FRA forum to have us all reaching for our dictionaries ;)
Im going to put mine back on the bookshelf until next year.
Regards
Tim
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Is this even worth fighting for?
. whats the point? they allready [sic] won it so they couldnt achive [sic] any higher. would anybody? no
Thats an unbeleivable attitude to take towards any kind of competition!
I dont really have the energy to go into a full break down of why not, thanks largely to Mr. Blairs clever idea of AS Levels.
Sufficed to say that it shows a complete ignorance of the fact that the sport is constantly evolving, competition is improving, and that being a previous years champion can count for very little in the following years competition.
As for yes it was partly due to finantials [sic] think about it, do a compertition [sic] and risk your carrer [sic].
Razer was really famous, because razer was on telly. If razer isnt on telly, people will forget about it. I think that is going to be far more damaging to their carrer.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
I just found somewhere that fan has been invented as a short form for fanatic. The first time it was used was probably to describe football supporters. Alas, I have no proof for it. But it certainly proves my assumption about fans being brainless idiots when they keep on ranting about faded glory.
Eddy is right when he states that the sport is evolving. You all know that Chaos 2 was retired because George felt it was no longer in the same league as the new robots. Nobody is ranting about the retirement of Chaos 2. Does that prove that Chaos 2 fans are not so rabidly obsessed with their idol ? I guess the answer to that question is yep.
You can cheer for a favourite but once a favourite chooses no longer to participate you must look for someone else to cheer for, fondly nurturing your sentiments about the old champ but firmly setting those aside for the new one. There are so many extraordinary good robots right now, why not cheer for them ?
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Is this even worth fighting for?
*SIGHS*
Two comments, and then two suggestions :
think about it, do a compertition and risk your carrer?
1) Their career IS combat robots ! Not doing competitions IS risking your career. What career does a sportsman have if he gives up after a couple of wins ?
whats the point? they allready won it so they couldnt achive any higher. would anybody? no, hypno didnt niether did wheely big chesse...!
2) Please go an understand what you are talking about before replying - seriously, go and find out why Hypno for example didnt take part this year before you make any more of a fool of yourself. Of course once youve won the big prize you come back to defend it - is there any other robot or sport in which part of winning the big prize isnt defending the title ? You are doing them a SERIOUS dis-service by suggesting that is the attitude that Ian and Scotty would take. Weve won the top prize - so whats the point anymore.
And now for my advice - quit while youre ahead, and stop reinforcing peoples view of you by coming back every time with a justification. IE Think before posting !
Ed
http://www.stormrobot.comhttp://www.stormrobot.com
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Sam, I know you dont dislike them - it was never my intention to even suggest at it.
What does get my goat is the following comment (I wish to make clear that it was not made or even suggested by Sam)......
....after all they are only fans and not experts in the field.
Those people that have been dissmissed as only fans become the experts of tomorrow. Without them there are no more people to take up the baton, no more people with new and different ideas and skills in developing the sport which is essential to its very survival. You can have as many TV shows and live events as you like but if no ones watching - whats the point?
It surprises and concerns me that the Razer team more than anyone elso would be content with just resting on past glories instead of getting out there and pushing things forward which I have no doubt they can. Team Razer has a very large and dedicated fan base but this whole thing reminds me of Spandau Ballets umpteenth comeback tour - how many times can you get away with singing True until the audience gets bored and goes home?
Although Im a member of the FRA I still consider myself a fan. Im learning how to build a robot (an antweight) and with absolutely no technical skills I have to pick a lot of peoples brains at a basic level by researching web sites and by posting questions on this forum. Above all I support the success of live events at any weight. Even by watching I can learn a hell of a lot. Those live events are events with fighting robots - I would learn nothing from just a show and tell session.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Robot Wars is about evolution. Some species get extinct, some evolve. I would gladly invite anybody within sight to take part in this and bring on their own creature. It is the building part which makes our hobby so fascinating, it is the what are they going to bring forth this time thingy... Nobody can expect the same one winning all the time for years, eventually things must change. If we dont, then people will get bored: Oh its Razer again, oh what, they will win anyway, lets check out that new reality docu-soap on the other channel... and then what ? No, we need change. And we need it badly in order to raise more interest in the television show so that we can go on showing people all over the country how nasty our robots are. What attracts people to our fights is the feeling of what kind of critter will surprise the big boys this time, not the certainty of yet another easy win by the same old bugger.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Hey guys.
Why all the commotion? Lets just sit back and chill.
But really, the reason why Razer fans tend to be the most vocal interests me. Perhaps its just because there is more of them. But i suspect that the real reason is that Razer are still among the best. Lets face it, both Wheely Big Cheese and Hypnodisc (2 robots i hold in very high regard) would probably face difficulties in even getting beyond the heats nowadays! As series 7 has progressed, a new breed of robot has been shown that even the mighty flywheel of the disc would just bounce off. Ones such as M2. But Razer would still probably stand a fighting chance against these, and I suspect that most fans know this, which is why they are digruntled by the beaks abscence. But enough. Roll on the new world champs...
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Im a complete and utter Dee Dee (the character in Dexters Laboratory) when it comes to building my little robot but thanks to this forum Ive graduated to mere idiot status. The good thing was that I was able to describe to the bloke in the model shop what I wanted when I got the bits and was able to follow the instructions posted on various web pages about modifying servos.
I bought my son the Razer DVD and theres a bit on it where Simon describes the force exerted by the beak by demonstrating with a pair of pliers.......a very worthy effort on his part Im sure but I got lost after about 3 words. I doubt that even his one-to-one tuition or if he beat me with a stick would help either so dont pin your hopes on me coming to event with anything more than my upmost support :)
Back to the subject though....by saying (Ive reproduced the quote with its original spelling and grammatical mistakes)
they allready won it so they couldnt achive any higher. would anybody?
Id be insulted if that were said about me.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
My word, I look away for a few weks and the converstion restarts.
I think a lot of people have said ever so matter of factly why they know Razer wasnt in this year. No offence, but unless you were there when the decisions were made, what you are told after may not be the whole story. just a hint there.
In the end, people forget that a choice was made some years ago, to have Razer tied into Robot Wars or Battlebots. They chose Robotwars, and the rest is history, so without robotwars we cannot say for sure thet Razer would not have succeeded.
It is not just the fans who are so vocal on Razer, both the lovers and haters are equally vocal, and I would suggest that unless you know the real, full story, people stick to the offical line, which have been done to death.
Why are we speculating if Razer would beat the new champ? if either team were bothered they would have suggested a meeting at a live event to answer it, they havent so it cant be an issue. If they arent bothered, why shouldnt we all wait until series 8 (if there is one) and see what happens? Im 90% sure I know what would happen, but until we see on tv who wins, we should not say who will win. From my point of view, Ive been inspired by both the old and new champs, so Im all for a fight between the two.
Happy skippy joy joy....
please continue the thread in this smiley way
James
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Razer/Razor have been mentioned 74 times in this thread. Wait 76 time now. If no ones interested in them why mention it so much? Maybe its because we would all like to see them back on the fighting circuit. I for one would like to have a re-match (freindly) at a fun event but if it doesnt happen then Ill carry on with whatever competition is out there not sit back and critisize them for not fighting. There are times when we dont want to fight and I would take offense to people who look at us like some of you are to Razer(77).
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Is this even worth fighting for?
There must be better things to do than count the number of times a particular word crops up :), however the very first posting on this thread was about the worth of someone trying to take a position against another who is not willing (for whatever reason) to defend it.
Not fighting is one thing, the decision to appear on RW or not is another but Joe Public has a very short attention span and it could be damaging personally and to roboteering in general. The appearance of popular robots whether they fight or not = bums on seats and continued popularity.
Criticism - possibly. A dig in the ribs - likely. Concern - definately.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
James, I think you will find the the current world champion has actually challenged the Razer team to a battle at an event in March but the Razer team declined on the grounds of risk of damage to Razer. This is third hand but believe it to be correct.
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Was going to suggest we host that particular challenge :)
Obviously someone already thought of it..
Sam
http://www.robotcrusade.comhttp://www.robotcrusade.com
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Perhaps they should go ahead without the real thing and fight a cardboard facsimile covered in Bacofoil - that should raise a laugh or two.
Ladies & gentlemen, boys and girls - Tonights main event is a heavyweight contest .......
:)
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Like i said before, lets just chill.
Well anyway saying whether the championship is worth fighting for without razer is a void point. The world champs has seen excellent fights, but to say razer makes it invalid is unfair, as the champs have never been a line up of the most important players of the world stage anyway. For instance, to complain about razers sudden abscence is unjust when, say, the most successful heavyweight combat robot of all time, biohazard, hasnt even entered the ring. There are many potential champions who have never even fought for the trophy, so instead whoever does win it is just as deserving as anyone else.
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got to be in it to win it
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Is this even worth fighting for?
Yes George - its back to this contract thing and the definition of World Champion as the Biohazard web site also describes itself as ..world champion combat robot.
Who will come out on top? - Well never know.
Anyway Im so cool that even Andre 3000 has to put on a cardy in my presence :)
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Is this even worth fighting for?
um... saying it again, the wholeis it even worth it was a joke post!
anyhow, yes Paul, Ive had an e-mail from the current world champ him/her self, which confirms that they have indeed offered Razer out, and they have declined the offer.
So, dispite chants of come on then if you think youre hard enough, the Razer team are not able/willing to settle it at the moment.
Fair enough, cant say they wernt asked.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
big girls they are.But fair enough to um i wouldnt want to get a kicking if i was the razer boys either.
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Donate it to the National Gallery to be shown alongside all the Starck, Conran and Alessi stuff and call it a day - as we all should now :)
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I think if a sponsor could be found, and sufficient monies were available to cover damages, this would change, so if enginuity want Razer vs... current champ, its entirely do-able, as long as both sides get the damage paid for. I say enginuity as its the best venue in my opinion for this. I think though, that if any other venue were able to find the compensation money for this must see fight, it would happen.
so, chickens? no.
youve got your conditions to make this happen, who wants to contact sponsors and make it reality?
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I can see it now (everyone must imagine a wobbly wavy effect as we go into imagine mode)
FOR HIRE
Razer - available for parties, weddings and barmizvahs.
Reduced rates for Students, OAPs and UB40s
Phone 0123 456 YOURHAVINGALAUGH
:proud:
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Is this even worth fighting for?
eh?
sorry but I missed the punchline there?
Thanks for the ad though, as most people may have forgotten that Razer is in fact for hire, available for Parties, wedding, barmizvahs, schools, libraries, youthclubs, and many other things. All of the people who have hired Razer in the past have given positive feedback and many have repeadly booked.
the phone numbers wrong though.
If you are interested in hiring Razer, e-mail Ian lewis on Ianrazerlewis@bigfoot.com, or e-mail me if you want more information.
Thanks Karoline :)
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I think Caroline was refering to the lack of success they will have if they continue with such a rediculous way of thinking.
so, chickens? no.
I think most people would fight if they were going to have all their damgage repaid!!!
Its the fact that they wont fight unless all their damage is paid, and whatever other plethora of prima-dona demands, that makes them chicken!
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It also makes building a robot a more interesting challenge. Because you know that everything might be damaged you start looking for less expensive parts and cheaper solutions. Many a scrapheap has been visited by Mario and I and we sometimes did things to parts the people who threw them away could not imagine to be possible. It was fun to surpise them.
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Now theres a thought - theres a bloke that looks just like Ian Lewis selling the Big Issue in the foyer of ASDA at Hollingbury, Brighton ... honest!
I might just give him the money for the mag out of the goodness of my heart poor dear :)
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Ha ha, love it!
can you get a pic, Ive got to send that to ol potato head...
The Razer arguement has been done to death, so Ill try one more time to get a point accross, then quit forever.
Imagine you are a supermodel (behave...) you have been offered a fight by Jordan, and would love to kick her butt, but you have a fasion show every week and you cant show up with a broken nose. What do you do? If Jordan agreed to pay your loss of earning if she gets a lucky punch in, Im sure you go for it, but if not, who pays the rent? You are not obliged to fight her, but youd like to.
Is is wrong to risk your livelyhood, and the rent, just to have a bit of violent fun?
there we go, final attempt, hope its clear.
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Ill smile sweetly and ask him - this guy has a beard but I thought I saw Ian nudie-faced lately.... now wheres my camera?
Anyway I remember that you started this debate :)
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The problem,is that Razer started out as fighter. Got the advertisement as a fighter.But earns better by drilling holes in cardboard, because the managment says so.
This sounds almost like the spinner-non spinner arguments. Almost nobody likes to find there machine in bits after a fight,so in most cases, non limited weapons are not even in the fun part of the hobby.
But Hey, we cant force a boxer turned ballerina to fight again.
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Is this even worth fighting for?
I second that Mario.
James, following the logic of your explanation... Razer started as a boxer, won a lot of fights, sat at the top of the world, and now refuses to fight because he would lose his lucrative contracts on the catwalk and in beauty contests. Silly isnt it ?
Unfortunatly it is not really like that and there is a lot more stuff involved. You want to quit the discussion, fine. I want to quit the discussion too... with saying this: Razer stopped participating (who knows forever) and ranting about championships being obsolete by his absence are ridiculous. Many a champ has stepped down at the height of his career in order not to be forgotten as that old bloke who keeps losing but instead to be remembered as the champ of the golden old days. No matter what the team of Razer does or want to do, allow them the honor of being the champ of the golden old days and stop whining. Give the new kids on the block their chance to shine !
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You should read the above posts before acusing me of whining.
This thread, as I explained above, was a lighthearted dig in the ribs for the current (deserved) champ as I know how this subject hits a nerve.
People have taken me seriously, so I stated it was a joke, people continued to take me seriously, so I went along with it by responding, and people are STILL taking me seriously.
For the final time....... it was a joke!!!!
God! I hope people dont do this to Mikey Schumacher when he goes, it wouldnt be fair to call him a wimp for not continuing to race once hes retired.