Making Britain Great Again - resurrecting Nigel Barrage

Hello everyone! I dropped off the forums a little while because I felt like I wasn't doing much that was really worthy of being shared. However I've decided to stop faffing around with making a Henry the Hoover drive around at XR events and make the next step forward.

The idea came to me after James Davies (of Donald Thump fame) began to work on a second heavyweight. Reasoning that he didn't have the time to work on a featherweight as well, I offered to 'foster' his featherweight Nigel Barrage, returning it to spec for the featherweight championships and in turn using existing parts and solutions to learn what would make a good spinner tick for when I come to do my own... but that's a tale for when I have more money.

So for those who aren't in the know, James had planned on a minibot for Donald on the TV show called Nigel Barrage but ran out of time. He then entered this into the King of Bots Featherweight Championships last year. If I recall correctly it had one successful fight against Jon Frizell's Unicorn before it dropped out due to issues with the construction.

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I picked it up off James at Extreme Robots Bolton with all parts except the weapon motor. The first step, done in the pits, was to basically undo and remove everything. James has a very... bodgy... style to his robots, shall we say, and a lot of polystyrene needed to be emptied out of Nigel. Once I got home from the event I was able to better look at what I had to work with.

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The chassis! The motors are big beefy Gimsons which is new for me, having only used drill motors before. The main concern though was with the wheels...

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The 'hubs' were square pieces of metal welded to the gimson shafts and then glued into square holes in the wheels. The wheel guards meant they wouldn't come off easily but that also meant I couldn't remove the motors. Seeing as I wanted to deal with the rust issue, they had to come off.

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Before I did that though I put my temporary meme feather drive system in to take it for a spin and test the motors. No problems here!

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Ah. A 3M belt and a 5M pulley. Well James did make this at short notice, but something I'll have to remedy. People have suggested BeltingOnline but any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

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A feathertwo! I've been given orders to keep this in as good order as possible considering how finding these are getting to be like hen's teeth these days. The fuse/power light system has since been disassembled and is being put together in a new form now.

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A trusty Redbrick ESC. Unfortunately the Propdrive 50-50 that came with it has gone walkies in the depths of Hereford, so I'll need to get a new one, or a motor that fits the same specs but is within shipping time. Suggestions very welcome.

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Since taking the above pictures I've removed the wheel guards (to have HDPE ones put in place that are removable), and in the process also removed the static spikes from the front. Plan is to make hinged ones. I also sanded and steel wool-ed the interior which was getting quite pitted, and paint stripped the exterior to get rid of the rust. While I know there's more work to be done and painting at this stage isn't ideal, it got me a bit of peace of mind and a good 'glamour' shot before sending it off to Robodojo to confirm the entry.

When I get some time I'll update on the wiring loom fixing. But again if people have suggestions to find new belts, a motor and a pulley for said motor (can you 3D print them?) I would greatly appreciate it.

-Greg

Coming to robodojo champs this month b?

That's the idea! We have signed up, not paid the entry fee yet though.

Looks good from what I can see, the wheel hubs look a bit odd mind - Gimson themselves sell a hub for that motor though that does warp a little easily for my liking.

BeltingOnline is a good shout, might be worth checking GearsandSprockets.co.uk as well, they do belts and such too, got my BW parts for a spinner from there. Motor suggestion... could go with a Turnigy SK3 outrunner (for example - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...ner-motor.html) but a PropDrive is a known element and works, I'd probably stick with that.

That's some quality bodging! Good work on the tidy up.

Another option for belts: https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Be...601/index.html

I've found that most online shops that have at least one of gears, belts, sprockets or bearings in the name sell all or most of those things...

I have a NTM5060 going spare if you want it, and a generic 5065.

Hey, looking good for a deconstruction and regeneration project. Shall be following this build so keep it updated :)
Belting online is where i tend to go for things within a few days, and they tend to be the cheaper sources for my work stuff too.
We do have plenty of old belts that i cant use for work, but plenty of old ones that have been replaced (we replace them yearly so i have a tone that havnt really done anything. will check it out as something may be suitable for your weapon drive, then you will get spares!
3D printing and any CNC machining i could help you out with too so just give me a shout too :)

Progress! Decided to bite my lip, suffer through cheap food for a month or so and put a (for me) big order in at Hobbyking and under the suggestion of Sam, simplybearings which I somehow found less intimidating than BeltingOnline.

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This one fits nicely, but is a little bigger than the one that was done before. It may require quite a big belt tensioner, but at such a low price perhaps it's better to get a smaller one ordered?

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Next up, a new brushless motor! I think I even got the right one, as it lines up to the holes James cut in the weapon bracket perfectly. I just need the right screws for it (the ones provided in the packet are a size too small) and it'll fit snugly.

Ended up realising I need a BEC as I tried to spin it up in testing. For a moment I was freaking out that the Redbrick ESC was borked, but putting it in a circuit with a drive system worked much better. This does leave a bit of a question for me though - do I get a cheap BEC or abandon my idea of independent drive and weapon systems? Maybe that'll to rely on my new batteries and how they fit... oh.

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(Lemon for Scale)

So the plan had been to split the two systems of the robot up. Two batteries, two links, two receivers and two fuses. The works, so that it would be easier to diagnose problems. To that end rather than running the whole machine off a single 5 or 6S, I thought I would be clever and order two 4S. But judging by the size compared to the battery Nigel used last year...

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I think I may need to re-think my position. I think these are more batteries suitable for beetles. Or if I use one for each system, do I still stand a chance of making the full 3 minutes?

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Threw everything in the robot to see if it more or less fits. It does. Next big step is clearing up the fuse circuit and perhaps making a block to hold the links out the back. Still need to design some 3D printed hubs for the Gimsons, and finding a lathe has become more difficult.

Edit: One thing that did surprise me! I use a Devo 7E transmitter and I found that setting the throttle to the lowest setting actually brings it to zero rather than -100%. Some scary moments as I tried to wrestle the motor into behaving itself. I've played around with the mixing slightly to behave itself but I'm wondering if anyone knows of this being a continual issue or if I simply have a dodgy old TX.

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I think I may need to re-think my position. I think these are more batteries suitable for beetles. Or if I use one for each system, do I still stand a chance of making the full 3 minutes?

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I would say those batteries were too small. I use one in The Honey Badger 4.0, which a Beetleweight. I would think in a Featherweight, the draw on both would probably kill them within the three minutes but for testing, they should be OK for very short bursts. The 4200mAh battery pictured is a better fit but if you want two separate batteries, I'd probably go for anything upwards of 3000mAh in that setup.

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I've played around with the mixing slightly to behave itself but I'm wondering if anyone knows of this being a continual issue or if I simply have a dodgy old TX.

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If it is a Feathertwo Dual, I would turn off the mixing on the TX altogether as the two mixing can have some odd outcomes.

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Originally Posted by Ocracoke

I would say those batteries were too small. I use one in The Honey Badger 4.0, which a Beetleweight. I would think in a Featherweight, the draw on both would probably kill them within the three minutes but for testing, they should be OK for very short bursts. The 4200mAh battery pictured is a better fit but if you want two separate batteries, I'd probably go for anything upwards of 3000mAh in that setup.

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Get sherkt running 1800mha x303 using about half of its 4000mha, spinners are really really energy efficient my hammer bot took 2700mha to 30% in a hammer heavy 3min match. all 6s

Yeah, I'd guess spinners were energy efficient in that regard. I was more thinking about not charging all the time between fights.

hey Greg and James, we shall have some fun next week

So I'm going to splurge my thoughts a little bit. No pictures really besides one I took before the event started.

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So the big thing is the side guards and armour. This is actually an offcut of the Extreme Robots arena I must have picked up after Chatham (most like) and had lying around. With time running short, I visited the workshop in Burton (thanks Marler) and had a couple of cuts made to bolt in the polycarb using some M12 bolts. Problem sorted.

So my transmitter issues have been ongoing and Joe Brown (who also uses one) was able to say they're not usual so I think maybe I need to invest in a better Tx at some point. This caused an issue in my first fight against Barrog Doom where I couldn't spin the weapon down before the fight, having to turn the Tx off and on again.

Then came the bit some of you know. Eoin slammed me against the wall and the shock made the pulley bounce off the weapon shaft. Ease of access maybe, but I'm finding more issues I screwed up in this. Then all of a sudden I lost drive. Taking it back to the pits at first I thought it was because I blew my 30A fuse. Given that these 775s were a lot more powerful than the drill motors I'm used to I was happy to say that was the case. But things only got worse.

Checking the wheels, I found the left side was seized up completely. Suspecting the gearbox, Dave Weston helped me take it apart. The gearbox itself is fine - the problem was the 775. The spindle/shaft of the motor was bent at an angle enough to prevent it turning properly. Dave tried his best to help me out with this, while I was about to work on a second solution.

This time on the right side it was the grub screw holding the hub on. At first I thought it was just stiff. But when the screw sheared as I was trying to undo it I lost it. I had no Gimson spares - I'd spent all this time thinking these were high quality reliable things and I wouldn't need to use my Black and Decker cheap drill motors solution. I'd spent extra money on Gimson hubs, and not prepared wheel mounts or positions for them to go. I had to drill out hardox on a time frame (you can imagine how that went) and only just got into the arena with my stupid 'drill chucks around an M10 bolt' solution that was used for Henry the Hoover at Bolton.

Obviously in the time they'd been in the toolbox, or maybe in the arena, they'd degraded a touch more. There was no grip between the drill chuck and the wheel itself and I spun uselessly against Crabsolutely Clawful. I got it into the arena and people are saying it's still great but I don't -feel- great. I feel exhausted, hot, sweaty, frustrated. I've come clean to James that I smashed up his 775 myself out of frustration and he's clearly not happy. I need to make some new wheels or cut the chassis further for it to work tomorrow, for which I have Forge Master and Mitternacht to look forward to - two robots that can actually damage me as much as I've been damaging myself.

I'm sitting here in my 'hotel' with a cider wondering if it's worth it to keep going on. All I've done and doing is just keeping this piece of shit alive when maybe I should have left it to rust in James' shed. I know I sound like Matt Smith right now being a whinging nancy but I'm just... what's the point? What's the point if you're not having fun and the robot doesn't want to respond?

I made a mistake with my booking and only got two nights instead of three in my accommodation. I was thinking to extend but the hotel is bad enough and the event is not going well enough, should I just go tomorrow after the rounds are over? What do I really have to look forward to with such a shit robot?

Sorry to hear the frustrations you are having Greg. In situations like this, it is at this time I just down tool and walk away for the night. Sleep does help clear one's head. I've had the 775 motors seize up on me before but that was under heavy load on Kaizen.

The hubs are 6061 aluminium, which do warp somewhat, as is the grub screw I think. What I figured was that under shock, the ends of the grub screw warp a little, causing it to bind in the hub. I trialled smoothing off the end of the bolt about 5mm on Azriel but that doesn't seem to work. A high tensile steel cap head bolt might be better for handling the forces involved if it isn't one already.

It's a big relief in a way to know that the Gimson hub issue wasn't just me. Thanks Ora. Sleep is probably going to help. I'll be back tomorrow and I have at least one idea how to keep this thing going. Still not sure if I'll stay Monday too though. >.< Feels like a habit though that I can't stay at events all the way through. Had to bow out of Bugglebots filming both Sundays.

Most Roboteers have been there Greg, if your not having fun and losing to Robots you know you should beat
it is so frustrating, you have come a long way from Bath -my advice is keep going, I tend to feel like giving up after
most events especially when I'm looking at a smashed robot-Remember these are the best of the best Robots
and you are good enough to be there-I did not have a Robot good enough so I'm not.

Indeed, nothing so disheartening than having your machine not work properly. I know that feeling with Jibril at the moment. I am the same with events, I can't make both days of events normally and it annoys me deeply. Grantham and Bolton were close enough for me to do both days but sadly, I couldn't get Azriel ready in time for the championship (besides, two championships this year is enough for me. :P)

The thing is, now it has been in the arena, you know where the weak spots are and so can work on them as you mention, you have at least one plan going. It'll come good in the end. ;)

Hey all. You may be pleased to know I stuck with it in the end. I'll do a full event writeup at some point. I didn't take many picture and most videos went straight to James. But I didn't give up, so thanks for your comments again.

Ah, excellent to hear, well done! :D Going to be taking a break from it before working on it again?

Well done for sticking it out Greg! Hope you had some fun in the end, look forward to your writeup.

Where was your "hotel" by the way? We've stayed at the Oddfellows Arms a couple of times when we've been up for the one-day Robodojo events, but not really savoured the experience (just arrive in time for a drink or two then leave before 830 the next day...).