Using tools for arming and disarming robots???

HI Guys,

Ill keep it short.....

I was never a fan of using tools to turn gas bottles on and off, in fact i was dead against it, until i converted when i built the previous version of Ripper, as the gas bottle was in an awkward position.

I feel that the tool has made my life a lot safer as I dont have my hand any where near my robot when arming it up.
If it was to fire, theres no way I'd be getting hurt !!

I think we should look to make it compulsary for people to NOT be putting hands inside robots when arming, and the standard tool should be used.

Whats peoples opinions?

John

i totally agree for robots where you may have to stand in front or near the flipper in order to turn on the gas, but in the case of my robot the gas is located round the back next to the link under the link cover. i personally do not think that robots like this should be required to use tools. maybe make the rule gas must be opened by a tool if there is a danger that you might get flipped/axed/eaten by opening manually.

:)

Each to his own .......
In the safest mannor in line with the machine ...... and the nature off the machine .....


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

its not about where you are in relation to the robot its about people putting hands inside robots.

IMHO

John

With all this wireless technology in existence these days, can't you just use wireless CO2 or something? :proud:

On a serious note - although I'm not a part of the flipping brigade - a tool seems and always has seemed a sensible option for arming up. Anything that helps to minimise risk to the arena marshal/roboteer should be considered. I remember someone saying that a disadvantage of using a tool for dis-arming was that if the area where the tool is used was damaged during a fight and it became impossible to insert the tool, you'd have trouble turning off the gas, but then again, the current accessible hole method is just as susceptible to sustaining damage that can render access difficult.

Again it's been mentioned before, but a universal tool would be a cert in my eyes, save the poor arena marshals having to keep a hold of umpteen different tools for umpteen different robots during a fight.

Is this be something people would be looking to implement in the FW class too, or is it more desirable in the HW class due to the heavy and more lethal nature of the machines?

ahh i see :)

would there be a minimum size of the tool, or could you use a pair of pliers or something similar to turn on the gas?

it would be for heavyweights only.

we currently use a standard tool..... 17mm socket on the end of a bottle top.
Gas bottles are fitted with a 17mm nut.

John

I can see thats easily done for the tank screwtop but how do you get to the dump valve, mine is just in the robot and so is the link ?

Surely the bot should be designed so that all the activation valves and links are easily accessible? Poor design should never be an excuse for changing a rule. Allowing a tool to be used to reach into a machine would surely encourage people to make things even more difficult to deactivate? IE the valve is located right there, you gotta twist the tool around this specific path to reach it

I can probably count a half dozen times when I have been thankful that no activation of my robots has been hidden away under panels and difficult to get to in an emergency. If something goes wrong during a bench test I want the robot dead asap without having to make sure I have a specific tool beside me. It would only take one time to forget this for something to severely go wrong.

The current rules (as it was in Robot Wars) are clear that gas must be able to be turned off or on and access panels opened without the use of a tool. The idea, as has been voiced, is speed of operation. Links and dump valves should be very close to the surface so hands don't have to go in the robot to kill it.
For example, although I have to put my hand inside Pressure to operate the gas valve, the link and dump valve are immediately behind the access panel, so in the event of an urgent kill requirement you can yank the link and dump the gas safely.
The gas valve, link and dump valve of Skink are all right behind the access panel.
The gas valve of Pressure mkV will be at the surface.
It makes sense, when a robot is designed, to put everything within immediate access so anyone can kill a robot if need be, using tools is inherantly slower.

What about combining the two?

Have an access panel that allows you to turn the gas off by hand, but also gives you access to do it with a tool. Why?
Well as you point out Mike, in case of emergency, turning off a gas bottle is much quicker to do by hand than with a tool. But in non-emergency situations, having the arena marshal turn off the gas by using a tool saves them having to put their hand in the robot, reducing one area of risk to them. In the off-chance that something happens during this time, it'd be easy enough to let go of the tool and get out the way. Or if the situation developed into the above emergency case, then a hand could be used to turn off/dump the gas.

I'm not talking about one access point for a hand and another for the tool, just the same removable access hatch that you'd have to remove for either hand or tool use (obviously one that doesn't need a tool to be opened) and also links/dump etc

I bought this up at an fra meeting ages ago, before that it was banned....

I personally think having your hand inside a robot to turn the gas on is STUPID.

The amount of times i used to turn turbulence's pneumatics on and it would fire due to a leaky seal or similar was crazy, if my hand had been inside the machine in a little flap cut in the armor like some machines ive seen it would of riped my hand off, or atleast broken somthing, im glad we fitted an exsternal method of turning the gas on ( a turn wheel on the outside of the armor)

Im with jonno... a standard tool should be made compulsory...or at least a way of turning the gas on/off from outside the machine without the use of tools. Id like to see it on fw's aswell...as a tech checker i will still never pass a robot you have to turn upside down to vent the gas ;) (mr lear)

And gary i think its suggested that all safety devices are in the same position... i.e. links/gas/dump should all be within close proximity to each other if possible.

I think arming the robot tools should be allowed,
but anyone should be able to disarm the robot with or without the tool. e.g. a pull string to operate the dump v/v on pneumatics :D

2011 im using bluetooth electric and gas ......lol

why not update the old way of cleaning a chimney and just get the kids to do it for us :lol:

the gas in my robot can now be turned on by hand :D

I've been having a read through this discussion and my view is that each robot should be armed up in the safest way possible and what might be safe or practical for one robot may not be for another.

Take Maelstrom for example- if this rule about using a standard tool for gas was made compulsory then it would fall foul of this rule because the tool would have to pass through the wheel and gearbox which isn't very practical, safe or do-able.

However- the tool could still be used to turn on the bottle but not in the way intended- those who have seen how we arm Maelstrom will understand how.

I think that it might be an idea to introduce this rule for any new build though.

Will,

The way you arm your robot is extremely safe in my opinion.
It is up to each roboteer and his machine.

I think general consensus is leave it as it is.

John

I agree in principle with Jonno on this. I think it has to be the responsibility of the roboteer to ensure that the robot he makes and uses, is as safe as it can be, this means thinking how to arm the robot, to secure flipper/axe arms, how to transport too and from the arena and how to safely charge and discharge Gas storage and batteries. It sounds complicated but in truth most of this we do as best practice with out thinking.

One area that I think EO's could consider is there is a danger of 100kg robots being put on benches between fights this causes potential accidents to people having to lift them nearly 1 meter up and then over to a bench after every fight. I have been at a meeting when the bench holding a heavyweight robot collapsed! I'm not saying ban it what I am suggesting is give us a bit of room so we can keep the HW robots on the trolleys between benches off the walk ways.
I would appreciate it if there were room for the heavy weight robots at the end of each bench (in the heavy weight section of the pits), gaps between the benches would be good. A lot of us now use trolleys to transport the robots too and from the pits. Or like the Saint are not practical to work on when on the bench, EO's know before hand the robots that are booked to come and the teams that now use trolleys, and it would not take too many shows to sort out how best do this.

What do people think?

I am with Craig all the way on this one, Meggamouse lives on it's trolley from leaving the car to loading into the arena. It makes for a secure cradle and I can work on it much easier. I too have seen more than 1 bench collapse with a heavyweight on it.
Where possible I try to get an end bench to keep the trolley out of the aisle, but have in the past moved benches along to store in the gap. Some venues are limited in their pit space, I know, but it wouldn't hurt to leave a gap, also, gangways will be kept clear as no-one will have any more excuses.

Tools to turn on and off gas. I made the first one as it was impossible to get my hand into Meggamouse for access. It had been raised at an FRA meeting 3-4years ago by Dave Moulds, but nothing was decided then - it was suggested, though, that it had to use a 17mm socket welded to a handle - so that was what I used. I find it so much safer, if anything is amiss I haven't got my hand buried in the machine. Jonno liked the idea and copied it - well he borrowed mine until I hid it - then he had to make his own.........Toonraider now has one and I am sure Pete feels the benefits when de-gassing using the tool.
I don't think making it compulsory is the way, but for new builds it should be highly recommended.

Trev

on my previous post i meant to say the gas in my robot can now be turned on by hand or by tool :D

Hi guys, the obvious way to go with this it seems to me is to build a robot that has the gas valve immediately behind the access panel with an M10 nut (17mm spanner) welded on the handle.
In this way the gas can be turned on/off with or without a tool safely.
Mike.

I know I dont have a flipper or any thing, but from what I have seen, I agree with mike. you should be able to turn the gas of safely by hand but to make it safer you should be able to use a universal tool to turn the gas off.