AW Rules

Hi everyone, I'm new :D

I've joined the forum with the intention (and hopefully capacity) to build a robot or 2 and join in some events.

I've been looking into it and have decided to attend a few events first and to start small, unfortunately there isn't any events around Yorkshire as yet so I'm inevitably fiddling with remote control stuff in the mean time...

And anyway, my first question... Do all the rules in the 2008 Build rules pdf apply to ant weight as much as any other category? I mean it seems unusual to have fail-safes and power lights for rc robots smaller and less dangerous than the average kids rc car...

Thanks :wink:

Hiya, welcome to this sport of ours :)

The antweights, by and large, tend to operate seperately from the rest of the FRA - http://www.robotwars101.org/ is the main site with an active forum where ant builders congregate, and the current incarnation of the ant rules can be found at http://www.antweight.co.uk/rules.htm .

Hope that helps

Failsafes may seem silly but something like an antweight spinner could probably see of to that thumb you've been saving for your entire life. They aren't complicated or difficult to meet so it is just easier to abide by them!

Hiya, and welcome to this wonderful hobby :)

Antweights don't reqire failsafes on the drive, since they are nice and light, but do require one for the weapon, because ant weapons are generally made of metal, and can do you an injury if they go spaz.

For more info on Antweights, the forum Joey linked to is the best place to get advice on the subject.

As for events in Yorkshire, there have been and will be in the future, ants are welcome at Roaming Robots and Robot's Live events (dunno about Robochallenge, never thought to ask :P), there may well be an AWS coming up next year in Yorkshire...

I've never had any real issues with travelling down from Yorkshire to events, it does mean a few early mornings and a lot of train tickets but you can get to just about anywhere that hosts events from Wakefield Westgate station in my experience.

(I am also rather insane)

Thanks for the replies and the welcome :wink:

I've been doing a little research and fiddling around with a couple of rc toys, and as always when trying to enlighten myself I have more questions:

I've discovered i have a system set out already, an old rc hovercraft with a button for the motor that controls the lift, ie a failsafe, it's a constantly running motor which would lend itself to a spinny thing of some kind. Only I think there might be one or two problems; if it goes out of range the switch wouldn't turn off the motor, would that matter since it's not likely to get far out of range?
The battery atm is heavier than the whole robot is allowed to be so where might i find batteries suitable for an AW? Ie about 9.6V ish, light and not containing liquid acids or anything else disallowed...
3rd possible problem... I have no idea how to change or even where to locate the crystal to change the frequency, it say's it's 27MHz though

and again, thanks :)

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Originally Posted by joeychevron

I've never had any real issues with travelling down from Yorkshire to events, it does mean a few early mornings and a lot of train tickets but you can get to just about anywhere that hosts events from Wakefield Westgate station in my experience.

(I am also rather insane)

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I would travel to further events if I wanted but I don't fancy paying for the diesel! yeah yeah, yorkshire short arms de.....

I can wait though :D

No problem David :)

R/C toys might not have a facility to change crystal, given that they're produced very cheaply using pretty much the minimum parts needed to get them working. You'd be better off investing in some proper R/C equipment really, that's the sad truth :P it needn't cost much, I got my first set of 40mhz gear for £50 and it's served me well and you can get 2.4ghz sets for under that price now.

Also an on/off button on a transmitter doesn't really count as a failsafe, the entire point of a failsafe is that it shuts the weapon down when signal is lost/the robot goes out of range, so that idea is a non-starter I'm afraid. The vast majority of speed controllers available for antweights at the moment do failsafe though, along with some of the more spohisticated R/C systems, so separate failsafes aren't likely to be an issue.

Most good antweights (and a few really bad ones too) use either 7.4v or 11.1v lithium polymer batteries, they can be bought from most R/C model shops. The supplier I usually use is Micron Radio Control as they've always been really good with service and delivery...Lipos do require special charging gear and can be dangerous though, if you're looking for something safer and less complex you can get 4.8v and 6v NiMh packs from Technobots, or in a pinch run the robot from a PPV 9V battery.

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Originally Posted by joeychevron

No problem David :)

R/C toys might not have a facility to change crystal, given that they're produced very cheaply using pretty much the minimum parts needed to get them working. You'd be better off investing in some proper R/C equipment really, that's the sad truth :P

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and yet spall managed to survive 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPTQnG-yCdI

Aparently it is possible to change the frequency of rc toys if they're close enough
http://www.instructables.com/id/Modd...ior-Fernlenkf/

Spall did have a frequency change of sorts, I suspect that's what the extra switch on the controller is for. (in any case, it was infrared :P)

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Originally Posted by joeychevron

No problem David :)

R/C toys might not have a facility to change crystal...

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Right then, More questions!
I've been tinkering with old stuff again, are you allowed to use a part of rc stuff, I have an old tank within dimensions and weight limits, all I'd be using is the motors, chassis and tracks, the rest would be home built, ie remote control system, battery, armour and all the rest that is needed, which raises a noob point which proves how far I have to go to understand everything...........

What parts are 'needed'? There's obviously motors, transmitter, receiver, battery, something to move it along (wheels / tracks / legs) but what about speed controllers? are they necessary and what exactly do they do? Is there anything I've missed...

Also, after looking around parts websites, how does the signal from a receiver translate into motors moving? Do they have connections straight to motors or is there a step in between?

And finally a cheeky one, could someone give me an example of a receiver that is suitable for AW; light, small, etc... that would run on a 9V battery? I've decided it's the simplest and most readily available battery...

I think I'll leave the other forum for now, one is enough methinks, plus this way I get to hassle you lot some more :D

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Originally Posted by sabotageDave

...what about speed controllers? are they necessary and what exactly do they do? Is there anything I've missed...

...how does the signal from a receiver translate into motors moving? Do they have connections straight to motors or is there a step in between?

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...you answer your own question there virtually :P The speed controller is what goes between the reciever and the motors to get the motors moving, and it's also what batteries generally plug into - most speed controllers can power the reciever from a regulated supply from the battery.

An absolutely brilliant guide by Andy Hibberd (five time AWS champion including three consecutive wins...grr...lucky fecker...:P) to wiring antweights with diagrams can be found here: http://www.robotwars101.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1399 and illustrates how on a budget you can also use modified servos to get a robot going.

You would be allowed to use the drive and other bits from R/C tanks; it's just the radio gear that's suspect (and often the control circuitry is part of that so needs to be replaced too). Recievers needn't run straight off 9V batteries as you can run them through regulators (either on the speed controller board or standalone ones) so they only get 5V and don't fry themselves, so you can use pretty much any sub-10g reciever that's compatible with your chosen transmitter.

Right, I'm learning, the questions are getting more focused :lol:

I have a couple of examples but have no idea if they're compatible:
Speed controller: http://www.technobotsonline.com/saberto ... oller.html
Receiver: http://www.technobotsonline.com/futaba- ... -4-ch.html

I'd guess they are compatible, I have a feeling I'm going to be asking questions every step of the way here...

I also am having trouble finding a transmitter with a skid steer layout, All the online shops I find only have Forward-Back, Side to side controls or the wrong frequency.

That guide is very useful btw :wink:

tia

I know its unavailable ATM, but http://www.technobotsonline.com/saberto ... 30698.html is the same as you linked to, but it has the RC wires already attched, so no mucking about doing it yourself.

The RX and sabretooth are compatible, in fact I use both in my drive-all-day ant, Bulletproof.

As for skid steer, not quite sure what you mean, what do you want the robot to drive like?

I think he means tank steering but the sabertooth has inbuilt mixing to put drive on one stick leaving yourother hand free to control your weapon.

Yeah, well not exactly skid steer, but pretty much the same. just where each track is controlled separately, forward and back, skid steer implies they only go forward and turn by stopping one side.

I don't intend to use a weapon, I'm going for simplest of simple, a push-bot, I'll think about weapons later... When I know what I'm doing. :shock:

Now before I go spending many pennies I need to find a reasonable transmitter at 40 MHz that has the right configuration, now this I am having trouble with... Know any online shops or shops around York anyone?

Thanks again for the feedback, am I getting annoying yet? :P

Nope, you aren't :) you're being reasonable in fact.

You can get batteries and servoes, as well as radio gear, from Micron Radio Control who are based in Malton, but most people tend to buy online - delivery from places like Technobots and Robot Bits (both of which sell motors, speed controllers, and wheels among other things) and MUTR (polycarbonate and other plastic/metal sheet for armour - check under Modern Materials) as well as eBay sellers tends to be quite timely and affordable.

For a first robot I'd reccommend getting the Sabertooth 2x5A for R/C speed controller as it comes with a nice sheet explaining how to wire things up and what the switch settings do, and with that and some radio gear you should be pretty much set - there will hopefully be at least one Antweight World Series 'oop north' as they say around here in the first half of next year, either in Hull or Pontefract, but in the meantime you're welcome to take whatever robot you end up with to the Preston Roaming Robots event in February (?) 2011 and have a go with it there, I'll be in attendance with a couple of other ant builders and hopefully Jonno should have his bespoke arena ready for us to fight in then.

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Originally Posted by joeychevron

Nope, you aren't :) you're being reasonable in fact.

You can get batteries and servoes, as well as radio gear, from Micron Radio Control who are based in Malton, but most people tend to buy online - delivery from places like Technobots and Robot Bits (both of which sell motors, speed controllers, and wheels among other things) and MUTR (polycarbonate and other plastic/metal sheet for armour - check under Modern Materials) as well as eBay sellers tends to be quite timely and affordable.

For a first robot I'd reccommend getting the Sabertooth 2x5A for R/C speed controller as it comes with a nice sheet explaining how to wire things up and what the switch settings do, and with that and some radio gear you should be pretty much set - there will hopefully be at least one Antweight World Series 'oop north' as they say around here in the first half of next year, either in Hull or Pontefract, but in the meantime you're welcome to take whatever robot you end up with to the Preston Roaming Robots event in February (?) 2011 and have a go with it there, I'll be in attendance with a couple of other ant builders and hopefully Jonno should have his bespoke arena ready for us to fight in then.

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Good good :D

Aye I've been looking around Technobots a bit, seems quite thorough, apart from their transmitter section! :?
There's some places local to me where I can get metals / plastics if I ever need them in the future, so that's not a worry.

Yeah, I've just contacted them about that receiver, asking when it's back in stock, also that guide you mentioned is in the 'downloads' tab in the product info.

I'll definitely get it ready for next year then, and hope it doesn't get broken :shock:

Also, some pics of the chassis I salvaged:

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/CIMG0412.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/CIMG0411.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/CIMG0410.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/CIMG0409.jpg

You can understand why I want to use a simple 9V, it fits beautifully!

Can I ask what toy you got that from? I like tracked robots :)

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Originally Posted by joeychevron

Can I ask what toy you got that from? I like tracked robots :)

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It was a Tiger tank, made by Micro X Tech, it stopped working a while ago so I figured it was fair game

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Originally Posted by razerdave

The RX and sabretooth are compatible, in fact I use both in my drive-all-day ant, Bulletproof.

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Can I ask what transmitter you use?