Burkert Valves

OK, I'm absolutely stumped!!

What are the main cause of a Burkert valve not firing?

I've done the obvious:

- Check on a change of state of the relay (It's being switched between 0 and 34v ish)
- Check the buffer tank is under pressure (30bar)
- Check solenoid is 24v DC (yep)
- Pointy arrow thing showing flow pointing towards ram (yep)

So, press button and get absolutely nowt. It's a brand new valve.

Is there anything perculiar with these valves which I need to do to make it work?

Andy

......................Sits back and awaits Clives response about not knowing what I'm doing :proud:

Do you hear it click?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leorcc

Do you hear it click?

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Not sure as when i was looking at it it was in the robot with the covers on. There was a click but that could equally be the relay.

As i recall from dtk, the click on the valve is relatively significant isn't it? Will check when i get home.

Andy

run a cable from the positive and negative of the solenoid valve to an LED visible on the outside of the robot (like your power LED) so when the valve has power running to it the LED will turn on. Will help during tech checks and problem solving in cases such as this.

Andy,

There should be a significant click.... on ripper when ive used burkets... the click is enough to be heard through the robot even with the covers on. Its a loud one.

Burkets can be temprimental things, but new ones should work, never had an issue with a new one, they dont like liquid getting to them.

I'm assuming youve got the right ones... rated to 50bar.


John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roamingrobots

Andy,

There should be a significant click.... on ripper when ive used burkets... the click is enough to be heard through the robot even with the covers on. Its a loud one.

Burkets can be temprimental things, but new ones should work, never had an issue with a new one, they dont like liquid getting to them.

I'm assuming youve got the right ones... rated to 50bar.


John

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In that case no, there's no significant click.

Yes, the burkerts were ordered as the right one (high pressure solenoid valve at 50bar etc) but suppose it's worthwhile just double checking the reference to make sure they are supplied right.

Just thinking about it, it did fire once (or maybe twice) at Whitwick but it was totally random so not what you call reliable.

Would a blocking diode across the coil help (read that 500v 1A diode may be helpful - can remember the details but can't remember where i read it)

Had to deal with liquid for Trevors regulators so the bottle is fitted with a dip tube which sorts that out and then it goes through the buffer tank before it gets to it. But I think the fact that the reg sits there quite happily is an indication that isn't a problem.

At Whitwick it was running on 10 bar and was running through the victor with low pressure pipes which would have blown off with any significant liquid in them.

That said, it's useful to eliminate all these things, so if you've got any more throw them at me (s'called brainstorming :proud: ).

Out of interest does mounting position have a significant effect. Instructions say preferably horizontal but any will do. It's in with the body vertical at the moment. I'd be interested to know if anyone else mounts them like that.

Andy

Hiya,

Mounting has no effect.. ive had them in alsorts of positions.
Check the rating on the actual valve.. 24v and 50bar.
Next id put 24v from a good battery driect to the connectors.. pos and neg, not the 3rd earth if it has one and there will be a large click, and you feel the coil activate.

If it clicks, come back, if not, send it back as faulty.

vertical / horizontal/ upside down.. doesn't make a difference, Ive mounted them in all ways before and they worked fine in either orientation.

You've answered your own question really, it doesn't click (at least not loudly) and its intermittent...

check the voltage getting to the terminals by firing it on the bench (without the gas turned on!) and see what voltage its getting..

if that seems dodgy take 2 wires directly from the valve, take your flipper arm off, gas up and fire it from a safe distance directly from a battery supplying the correct voltage... if that works you know its your switch that's playing up.

What r/c switch are you using?

Beat me to it john!

if u dont feel the coil enerjise say or hear the click

have u wired it up right ie the 2 oposite spades not the top as thats earth

and a good 24v suply

if it clicks and then u put gas in and it does not fire then thats another fault

and is it a 5404 ? burkert
or a cheap one it should say on it look at woodys page http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/co2_info.htm#valve

It's wired up proper and when i checked it last night it was getting 32.8V across the terminals of the plug. I'll check it when I've moved it out of the garage and got it on the bench with the plug housing off and coil connected just in case summat stupid's happening.

Invoice is forone of these with 24v DC coil but always worth a physical check:

http://docs-europe.origin.electrocompon ... 3b091a.pdf

Just wanted to know it wasn't summat I should be doing and apart from those checks it appears not.

Andy

well it is a proper one can u just put 24v to the coil from a battery to see if it works (with no gas) ?

stuck 36v across the coil today, big clickety click going on. Checked the cables going into the plug and it seemed one was loose (but deceptively so!!). Hasn't been rewired in a while so it'll be done this weekend and hopefully that'll sort it.

Andy

as we say new burkets are normaly all good :)

I dont use the plugs on toxic 2, just got the wires and diode soldered directly to the 2 outside pins on the burkert.
1 reason was I cant realy fit them because of the weight ! lol

Well, stripped it all back to the two cables used as power supplies (one for axe, one for flipper) re-wired it all ste it to work and........................nowt................... .......nowt....................................ver y small barely audible click!!

Went further back and got to a sealed junction which is left over from the original wiring Dennis did. Turns out there's a 3w, 100ohm resistor in line with everything on the power side!!

Took it out, works perfect.

Andy

Well it worked stonking big woosh and then lifts the robot off the floor at the front which its never done before and that was at 25 bar. Axe needs a bit more thought because it seems to have a bit of a problem on the reveiver but that's easy to sort out.

Flipper keeps getting stuck up because the rams got such a long stroke and it jack knife's. Not sure the best approach to that. Can't really move it forward as the motors are in the way so I was thinking about knocking 100mm off the stroke (250 atm) seems taking 50mm off the body of the ram and arm then sticking some hdpe in the body to sort out the other 50mm would work. (all done very properly you understand!!)

This would make the strike plate hit at a bit more of a sensible angle. Any thoughts on that anyone?

Andy

Hi Andy I use hdpe in my ram to reduce the stroke works for me
also if you modify and need a longer travel just remove the hdpe
no need to buy a new ram


:wink: 8) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by botmad

Hi Andy I use hdpe in my ram to reduce the stroke works for me
also if you modify and need a longer travel just remove the hdpe
no need to buy a new ram


:wink: 8) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Does it actually need to be fixed to anything or can you just wrap it round the ram and leave it loose?

I Have 3 X 30mm hdpe doughnuts slipped over the shaft of the ram and float up and down in the cylinder ........ :mrgreen:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :proud:

was testing the pneumatics on hydra on saturday and found that there appears to be some bypassing of the burkert valves going on. They seem to be letting some smal amount of flow through whilst they're de-energised. Fine until you shove em on an axe and it starts moving!!!! :shock: :shock:

Had a look inside and the seal which closes the valve looks relatively well worn. Is it possible to replace these or can i just remove them and turn them round or replace them with a machined ptfe alternative?

Andy

ive managed to get the wearing parts kits for these valves as ive broken 2 solonoid shafts !
they are only £25 per kit, lots cheaper than new valves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by terry

ive managed to get the wearing parts kits for these valves as ive broken 2 solonoid shafts !
they are only £25 per kit, lots cheaper than new valves.

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where did you get them from mate??

some where in norwich, ive mislaid the invoice so cant remember the name, they didnt post it to me i had to collect, but could always collect some and take to an event.
I will find invoice soon and let you know.

norwich that is sooo useful for me
(10 mins away sweeeet)

found the invoice the company is

parker hydraulics and pneumatics limited.

norwich , norfolk.

www.parkerhydraulics.co.uk

LOL! Terry I also pm'ed you the company's name a few days back. :crazy:

You should also be able to get the kit from other offical Burket distributors as well

http://www.burkert.co.uk/ENG/949.html

bumping this thread for clive