Your Opinion Please....

Ok, random question.... came from a random thought ive had for a while thinking about the future...!

What is your thoughts if the events didn't make any money and the EOs decided to slow down on the shows or event stop?

Options.

Touring the Uk in a class 3 arena, maybe in the future only 4 events throughout the year with audiences and a show atmosphere.

Or....

A fixed arena in a warehouse, maybe class 1 so both fws and hws can use those nasty spinning things. maybe the two major EOS put together their resources and do it jointly, maybe an event a month... probably little or no audience, but a social weekend of robots ( sort of underground ). But roboteers would have to pay a yearly subscription to fund it.

Just wondering what drives people with their robots.... if theres no big events with a show and atmosphere... would people give up, or would they like to then carry on but without the audiences.
Whats more important... the buzz from the show and entertaining... or building and fighting robots to the death.


Dont read into this that I'm about to give up or anything, its just a bit of discussion, RR events are doing fine at the moment, and venues are already being booked for 2011, its just a bit of forward thinking, and what if scenarios.

John
Roaming Robots

I think I missed something...

Instead of turning this into a once a month full on full combat competition, it could however be turned into a social event.

Play robots, grudge matches, full on fights, it doesn't have to be limited.

Fit swannys bar in the corner and have a drink afterwards.

Just use it to do what we all enjoy.

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Whats more important... the buzz from the show and entertaining... or building and fighting robots to the death.

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Definitely the building and fighting to the death aspect. The atmosphere of a show can be nice and getting people asking for your autograph is a lovely little ego boost ( :lame: ) but if there was no audience I would still fight, hopefully with at least one full-combat featherweight event a year.

Funnily enough I was wondering about something similar recently, the fixed arena in a warehouse idea. Been working my way through RW series 1 and 2 on Youtube so far and seeing the way they built the studio into the warehouse made me wonder if something similar would be feasible for the current level we're at with robot combat here.
If anything, it would make a better foundation for recording a new RW based TV show having a fixed loaction, rather than trying to film fights through an arena designed for touring.

The social aspect (Swanny bar, play fights etc) would also be lovely. Its great fun taking on opponents at a competitive level but mucking about in the arena with robots without having to worry about pleasing a paying public would make for a relaxed atmosphere.

With regards to a yearly fee, it's the only way something like this would be viable. Some people might not like it and for younger roboteers it could be costly depending on how much the fee was but if it helps support the setup then it's required.

Some of the roboteers in Australia have a similar setup. The fee for this year is $100AUD (~£60) and I believe some of that went to replacing the floor of their fixed location arena. They've also started beetleweights/kilobots this year. I'm sure if Glen or someone reads this they might be able to provide more info on their setup.

So to summarise, I would support such an idea :)

if this was the way things went:-
i think location is key, as you have roboteers all over the country so i believe it would need to be somewhere central, otherwise you may loose a few who only attend events closer to home.
i also think fewer events would be better on peoples pockets, and make more of a build up to events.
personally i would still try and get a audiance if possible, it helps with the atmosphere, drums up interest, even if it is held in one area of the country, it would be a bit extra cash to put in a kitty to buy new things/upgrades....

the only disadvantages i could see is if you went to a event that you pay a yearly membership into and say the arena was getting a bit shabby in places, people might not be too impressed, or spinners were causing alot of damage pushing up the price of maintenance somewhat. also more than one EO would make a great competition but what about conflict of ideas etc....?

i have no idea of the costs involved so could be wrong in what im saying.

would you possibly get more tv interest?? having a designated place perminantly setup?

may not compete anymore but still have interest, i would say its something people should give further thought and post about.

i think cost would be the biggest factor as to weather people think its a good idea.

least their would always be enough tables and powerpoints, know where your going etc.... lol

just think jonno, never having to transport, setup or dismantle a arena again.... bliss lol

i dont know how many active roboteers are around 100? 150? say £100 each per year. thats £10-£15K a year, would that get you much of a warehouse? and thats before maintenance, insurances, bills.
im just guessing here and throwing opinions and numbers, i dont want a backlash.

no idea how many active roboteers their are, or how much it costs for a warehouse.

or perhaps have a audiance when its a major competition over a few days, uk/world champs,

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Originally Posted by k_c_r

Quote:

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Whats more important... the buzz from the show and entertaining... or building and fighting robots to the death.

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Definitely the building and fighting to the death aspect. The atmosphere of a show can be nice and getting people asking for your autograph is a lovely little ego boost ( :lame: ) but if there was no audience I would still fight, hopefully with at least one full-combat featherweight event a year.

Funnily enough I was wondering about something similar recently, the fixed arena in a warehouse idea. Been working my way through RW series 1 and 2 on Youtube so far and seeing the way they built the studio into the warehouse made me wonder if something similar would be feasible for the current level we're at with robot combat here.
If anything, it would make a better foundation for recording a new RW based TV show having a fixed loaction, rather than trying to film fights through an arena designed for touring.

The social aspect (Swanny bar, play fights etc) would also be lovely. Its great fun taking on opponents at a competitive level but mucking about in the arena with robots without having to worry about pleasing a paying public would make for a relaxed atmosphere.

With regards to a yearly fee, it's the only way something like this would be viable. Some people might not like it and for younger roboteers it could be costly depending on how much the fee was but if it helps support the setup then it's required.

Some of the roboteers in Australia have a similar setup. The fee for this year is $100AUD (~£60) and I believe some of that went to replacing the floor of their fixed location arena. They've also started beetleweights/kilobots this year. I'm sure if Glen or someone reads this they might be able to provide more info on their setup.

So to summarise, I would support such an idea :)

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I'm with you Jamie :) I think there should still be scope for having events happening for an audience if it did go down that route - maybe with the more 'fun' events such as Fairford and Aylesbury where you don't necessarily need to have a full competition going (so you could take a class 3 arena that could be put up/taken down easily and just mess around with the robots for the entertainment of people :P) as there seems to still be a core of people who like going to and watching events, attendances seem reasonably good still considering the credit crunch. From a personal point of view I'd be more than happy to pay a fee or support the event organisers any other way they asked us to if it meant I could go to events with my under-construction featherweight and fight and have fun ^^

Id be well up for a fixed location Class 1 arena. Not having a big audience wouldnt bother me and im sure wouldnt bother alot of people, I go to events to fight robots and talk to people. Having a fixed location arena and not much of an audience would mean there was less of a show. The putting on a show part takes up alot of time, Im sure people would be happy if they got more fights with there robot over a weekend like at the robo challenge events. We could always take off from where robot wars finished and have a filmed show where we just have a series of knockout rounds where every fights filmed and catagorised into heats, once a full series is done release the full series + Side attractions + Competitions on DVDs. Plus you could still maybe do the more popular venues. Id love to see some heavyweight spinners in the arena too.
If it ever came down to the EO's having to stop doing the shows, All the roboteers would have to chip in to help set somthing up. Everyone would be left with two choices, help out funding and work wise or quit doing somthing they love to do and not be able to use them robots they have put so much time effort and money into. If to enter a robot into a weekends event it was a tenner it would be worth it to the roboteers. Pay a tenner to use your robot or have for example grands worth of robot sat there doing nothing. If sombody takes one robot to an event every month you get 120 quid that you wouldnt have had before. Say you average at about 40 robots per event with the heavys and feathers your getting nearly an extra 5 grand a year, Plus maybe charge for CO2 even if its not alot just a few quid from each person thats using gas for the day.

Hi all,
nothing particularly well thought out, just a few ideas and opinions
I like the idea of a fixed arena, although, I am one of those 'cash strapped' younger roboteers that were mentioned earlier. I think that having the fixed arena would be great, and social weekends really appeal to me. When it comes to the aspect of funding this, perhaps we could put on two or three huge extravaganza shows a year, and have a paying audience. This way, we could still have a class 1 fixed arena, but avoid huge costs for those roboteers who might find a high subscription fee prohibitive to taking part. A subscription fee may well still be needed, but the alternative funding may soften the blow a little. This may also help to keep interest in the sport alive, and enable us to make all the public events absolutely top notch (not that they aren't already) so as to really enthuse potential new builders.

I reckon the idea of a fixed base has some legs. For me I may warm to the idea but it doesn't really apeal to me.

Putting that aside I reckon the 'business model' you suggest is a bit unrealistic and badly thought out.

Have a guess what my reaction to the question 'Tell ya what, lets have a system where I take no risk, you pay for everything and that stuff then becomes mine, i get full use of the facilities for other parts of my business etc!!' would be cos that's what I'm reading into it. Put forward summat you want people to invest in and take ownership of then maybe it'd be attractive but then again you lose control of it and end up getting charged for the use by other parts of your business....................................

I know that it's just an idea but a business plan based on someone else paying for everything and having a very narrow base of potential clients to pay what would realistically be a lot of money is likely to be a VERY short term solution. Especially when you've taken out any realistic opportunity for earning revenue elsewhere.

That said if there was an educational base attached to it where the EO's could make money from school visits etc then maybe you have a compromise solution.

EO's do need to make money and without that there's a difficulty in the sport continuing but I don't reckon isolating the sport from the mainstream and essentially launching itself into its death throws would be such a good idea.

That said i do find it hard to get enthusiastic about responding to this in any great detail cos i reckon once you look at the feasibility of it that you'd throw it out anyway. I also find it very disturbing that i fiond myself in agreement with swanny that it's the EO's responsibility to make a profit and run a successful business, not the responsibility of the roboteers to fund the EO's :( :(

Andy

So if we leave it all down to the EO's and they find it financially impossible to run live events what do we do then? no safe enviroment to fight our robots against eachother, no warm and dry and safe venues where we can leave our stuff without having to worry about things going missing or getting wet if it rains. Most other competition sports and hobbys charge you to be a member or take part. For example with racing, you cant just show up at an official race meeting and race your car for free. you have to pay an entry fee, even if its none competition, that fee you pay pays for your insurance cover for that day of racing, track maintainance etc. Jonno didnt say we all pay for everything then he owns it. He said there could be a subscription fee. And I can understand why there would be. I think there should be a fee even with the current live shows that happen, even if its only a few quid, Like what was said at Robots Live the other week we are using loads of gas, alot more than we need to use. It is gas that there supplying to us for free, because its free to us we dont really think about stuff like only having got 1 or 2 flips in the last fight so there should be enough co2 in the robot to last another fight, The co2 just gets dumped and the bottle refilled. You could say if they didnt supply us with co2 we wouldnt have these good flippers that draw the crowds in to earn them money, but the audience arnt paying to see the co2 get dumped. With no big TV deals and funding and publicity like robot wars had its got to be hard for the EO's to do there live shows and earn money. So we should be helping out if we want to keep fighting our robots.

HIya All.

Interesting reponces....

Dont get bogged down in this, the business model, whether we should pay for events etc....

I just wanted to find out what peoples perception of what the future is, and which they felt was more important..

1) attending 3 or 4 events throughout the year where there's an audience and show atmosphere
2) ability to attend a warehouse social event organised each month and fight their robots

I wouldn't just hire a warehouse and stick an arena inside it......Andy, your right there are lots of ideas to take other forms of revenue, theres also lots of goverment grants available for things like this.
it wouldnt be... You pay and I'll take thats for sure!!, I'd be better just walking away if that was the case.

Like I said.... venues are being booked for 2011, and we also have a few new projects on the go for the later half of the year so things are looking good for now, BUT.... we if things turn, its good to have a plan B, or at least some knowledge in which direction to run to.

John

Interesting ideas but I do feel that the current way of doing things, ie mobile arenas is the way to go. Also I take it that by class 1 we are meaning heavyweight spinners? In which case the costs go up quite considerably both for the event organiser and the roboteer.

I honestly feel that heavyweight spinners are a pointless avenue to go down unless its for a single event each year. Featherweight spinners are fine as whilst some of the new ones coming along (my new one included) are getting towards the costs of a heavyweight robot, the vast majority of spinners and non spinners can still be built relatively cheaply.

One interesting method of raising cash for arena upkeep that the americans have employed is that when the arena polycarb needs replacing due to being too scratched etc, the roboteers buy it at 3/4 or 1/2 the original cost of the sheet. Reduces costs for the organiser and the roboteers are able to make use of the cheaper polycarb in the machines.

Also if it went down the route of having to pay a couple quid to enter an event to cover running costs I can't see many people complaining. The major difference between our sport and many others where the enthusiasts pay cash to run is that you can lose a couple hundred quid in a few seconds in the arena whereas the other sports are usually easier on the wallet.

Not sure if any of this post makes sense, I wrote it in pieces. :)

Tom,

I think you missed my point a bit. I actualy don't mind admission fees, I don't mind having to pay for gas. I've no objections to helping with marketing and I've no objections to paying to use a service which is provided as part of an overall business. I have an objection to providing free capital and investment to a business in which i have no stake and does not have a coherant way of making any money other than with that finance.

My point was simply that if you're going to run a facility to do one specific function and ask people to pay for it in full then it's likely to be costly and the ability to maintain any sort of order is out of the window if every person you talk to and try and organise provides say 5-10% of the finance for your business. If you've got an overall plan and a subscription is part of that then that's a different issue. The cost will be lower and there would be a considerable amount of initial investment from EO's etc. That's how it should be. I've no objection to Jonno making millions out of his idea, good luck to him but business is about risk and reward.

Maybe i was being a bit disingeniuous with my comments because I know what Jonno said and how it came across when i read it and i also had a good idea of what was meant and could probably have read between the lines a bit more.

Andy

Oh and by the way, I would pay good money to have somewhere to test the robots properly rather than the public tennis courts over the back of the garden!!! :rofl: :rofl:

my 2 cents:

look guys, i love the whole venue to venue experiance, i love signing autographs and watching the little kids smile, the whole atmosphere is great, but when it comes down to it as long as i have robot to fight, and a open space then im happy, hell i could be fighting terorhurtz in a bus-station bathroom for all i care, id still go away happy, as far as im concerned the EO's have done a top-notch job making the sport what it is after robot wars went down and i applaud them for that.

as far as having a fixed venue goes i could live with it, i do like a bit of variety and even the journeys with my family and friends are fun, but if thats what we have to do to make the sport live on then hell go for it guys, but i think that if we can keep going with the event setup we have going now thats what we should stick to

jack

I think it€™s good to talk about the different possibilities for the sport in the future, infact I think I did a thread similar to this about a year ago called,

The Future of roboting.

There were some good ideas on that thread if anyone wants to look. My view on the lets do robots in some big shed idea is, we purposefully back our selves into a ghetto type environment, were we don€™t get any exposure to the public outside the sport so few new people come in, and this makes the whole movement stagnate and then die. I can see significant problems long term with this idea and so I am not for it. :sad: :sad: Sorry Jonno.

I think I should come up with some ideas as to what we could do if I don€™t think the one put forward is going to work.

We could develop fighting robots for an all terrain environment with or without an internal camera built into the machine with a paint ball gun fitted
Paint Ball robot wars!

Or

Solar Wars
A small robot with no batteries but it would be powered via solar panel in turn powered by a powerful lamp think of the different weapons for this type of robot; you could have a shading umbrella! This would be current with the renewable scene at the moment, good for education and probably something TV could do rather than run another tired Robot Wars clone.

thats an idea mate :) perhaps we should look into...
battleboats!
i posted a thread about it being my other hobby but didnt get any replys :cry: which is a shame cos it is a awsome hobby

alot of people have posted about their concerns to do with new people not been able to get involved if we did go down one of the avenues

the way i see it is a paying audience is much more important than putting on a show aimed at getting a few people involved

money matters, so the focus imo should be on how do you make it break even or make a profit. This way the extra money can be used on other projects or to attract new people

:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhJpYHz38PA

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Originally Posted by k_c_r

Quote:

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Whats more important... the buzz from the show and entertaining... or building and fighting robots to the death.

---

Some of the roboteers in Australia have a similar setup. The fee for this year is $100AUD (~£60) and I believe some of that went to replacing the floor of their fixed location arena. They've also started beetleweights/kilobots this year. I'm sure if Glen or someone reads this they might be able to provide more info on their setup.

So to summarise, I would support such an idea :)

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Depends on the state, but in nsw its $100 a year and the money just goes into general repairs or upgrades on the arena through the year (its in another roboteers backyard in the shed mind :P) just redid the floor with the moneys this year and we're starting a portable beetleweight arena soon just to mix it up. take it around to different builders places, have some social events etc. 7 years of doing featherweights once a month was wearing on us all a little i think. doing sportsman, normal featherweights and beetles with alot less events this year so that seems to be alot more fun so far :)

the few public events we have done are exciting from a builder perspective, but in the handful we've done with respectable crowds theres been no new builders as a result. so no one is really too keen on doing any more unless were asked :) tho the qld guys are running a tutorial + event at the state library up there so hopefully that will create some new builders.

with the hordes of builders in the uk 100 bucks a year should be able to get you a good location like the OP mentioned. im sure having it in one location wouldnt be a problem. after all for the distance it takes us to drive from sydney to melbourne for an event we could drive across your entire country haha :crazy: i joke :P

do you imagine the cost of a warehouse large enough to contain an arena, pits area??? thats without seating, workshop space etc. its certainly an idea for someone who loves robot wars and has plenty of spare cash to inject every year. certainly not a business.

Didn't Roger Plant build a paintball shooting robot craig

i think we need shows, if were stuck in a warehouse new people arent going to find out about us, enough people think robot wars is dead anyway so we defo need shows

I agree john, I think without the shows it would die on its feet... Although it is a nice idea having a fixed, kick ass arena, I dunno how feesable it would be to run... and personally I do quite like atmosphere of the live shows

ok, heard enough .

Thanks

I think there should be a fixed arena in the middle of the country that has say 2 or 3 big events a year with a large audience to earn a little money to pay for repairs etc, and a small event every month or 2, just for robot with a small audence of friends and family.
The events should still tour around the country and offer a small discount of the big fixed event to advertise the event, then we get more friendly battles closer to home and with less of a cost for us. :mrgreen:
as I am also a young roboteer who can only just aford a tiny £100 robot as I dont earn money and I ask for robot parts as birthday presents, I think it would be a great idea to have fixed arena to fight in, and we could provide our own tables and chairs and share tools so then we would have to buy less too.

just a thought??? . as a sport? has no one ever tried to introduce a betting aspect in to it?? i mean kids could go and enjoy the show? where as the perents could go and put say a 10 or 20 on a compeditor to win?? would bring a new dimention to the sport and would have potential to generate some money?? probably a realy bad idear but just thought of puttin it out ther?? :proud:

fixed grade 1 arena would be sweet. If i won the lotto it'd be on my list of things to do :)

how high up though dave :lol:

im with you dave ! jackpot lotto win and i would buy a warehouse for a static
arena and workshop area all free to roboteers.
camping area and well stocked bar aswell !
sadly ive only won like £50 since its been running but its nice to have dreams ! lol

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Originally Posted by john

i think we need shows, if were stuck in a warehouse new people arent going to find out about us, enough people think robot wars is dead anyway so we defo need shows

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I agree. The audience already has an out of sight, out of mind mentality and if it weren't for the live shows people would have forgotten about Robot Wars and therefore robot combat a long time ago.

I can see the appeal of a fixed arena, but then we would need a big event to hold in it with lots of media coverage nationwide to draw in fans if we want our sport to grow. We need audience to bring in fresh roboteers or else the ranks of roboteers will dwindle even more.

i think that there are a fair few RW fans still out there and increased press coverage would bring in more people.

yes thats a good idea because even if I didn't start building robots I would have gone, if I heard about it, as I am a RW fan :mrgreen:

i was gutted the other day, got 2 numbers on the lottery and then was 1 off each of the last 4 numbers

was gutted

we should set up a syndicate for the euro millions each friday, all the winnings would go to creating a warehouse with arena etc n paying for a tv series and the people in it would become the shareholders depending on how much they put into the syndicate.

we would never win though lol

i had 4 numbers once, the next number was 44 and i had 45, was gutted, would of got me about £60,000 off memory, instead i got about £150