OK, I'm building a heavy... But need some help...

I have already posted this on the Roaming Robots forum, but I'm getting no replies there, so I'll try here instead

The Stats -

Shape - Box (hey, it's my first one, so it's cool!)
Armor - 15mm thick polycarbonate.
Weapon - Electrically powered axe

Don't worry, I've got everything sussed out for the transmitters, recievers and such like. It's just the speedos (isn't that a swimming trunk? :?: ) motors I need help with.

What motors should I use for the drive?

http://www.technobots.co.uk/acatalog/On ... rs_79.html

Any from Technobots?

And also, which motor would be powerful enough to make the axe self-right the robot?

I am glad you want to go and make a heavyweight robot, but have you thought it through, to have such a monster requires a lot of money to run and even without any weapon they are potentially lethal!
A 100Kg robot is heavier than most men, and it takes two men to lift them safely, poorly wired electrical weapon (axe) and it operating when you don€™t expect it too, the result would be very serious, I would not start such a project until I was at least 18 years old with experience with feathers for at least two years. I know you don€™t want to here this but without dampening your enthusiasm 13 years old is not quite old enough for heavyweight robots. Sorry :uhoh:

to be fair you only waited a day, not everyone goes on the forum daily

but i have to agree with craig here, start of with feathers or ants, then move up to heavies when your older and you've got some more experience with building

you could build an affordable feather on pocket money etc but you'd have no chance with a heavyweight, before i started my heavyweight i waited untill i had a job, but before that i bought all my feather parts using pocket money and EMA from college and even then it took awhile to save up for bits

just to give you an idea, my heavys motors cost me £207 or so for a pair, and you could potentially build a feather for that.

Guys guys guys guys...

The main thing for it was to first just make the electronics on a 120cm x 70cm sheet of Polycarb, then when I have enough money (after all, Christmas has come and gone now - I'm rich now! :lame: ) I would build the shell and suchlike.

Also, I have a very good knowledge of electronics for my age (I feel like I'm speaking like a granny) and I have built so far 1 antweight and 3 feathers...

I'm not going to leave it till I'm 18, that's a looooong way off, and Roaming Robots and Robots Live may have shut down by then, people may have moved on.

George@TeamZog

Ok I'm not gonna launch into a full this is why you shouldn't but I want you to seriously consider the following points,

- 100kg is a hell of a lot of weight. Back when I was 14 it took 4 of us to carry typhoon 2 around safely and even that was a struggle at times! If you don't have someone to help you move it around then I'd seriously consider staying with featherweights for the time being.

- Machining - Building things for a heavyweight is a lot harder simply down to its size. Are you going to be able to machine all the parts you will need? I'm sure I will get a few people disagreeing with me on this one but I'd say that to build a decent competition ready heavyweight you need access to a mill and lathe.

- safety - Heavyweights again by their sheer size require a lot of respect. 100kg falling off a bench onto your foot will hurt! Even something simple like setting failsafes on a heavyweight requires proper preparation. Turning on the transmitter and 100kg running straight at you, your parents car or something else valuable will cause a lot of damage. You have to bear this in mind throughout the build.

cost - A speedo for a heavyweight can easily run into the hundreds. Remember its not just the initial cost of building a heavyweight but what if that 300 pound speedo gets destroyed in a battle? Can you afford to lose the cash? This isn't as much of a risk these days with hardox and the lack of spinners in the heavyweights these days (sorry guys but they're a bit tame compared to the top spec feathers around atm!)

right, i know that you think you have a good knowledge of electronics (im not saying you dont, im 13 and i built all my robots myself...bar the ones i bought :P) but a heavyweight is a whole different league to feathers, even simple things like a chain coming off (which is easy anough in feathers) took 5 guys to get back on at reading in my heavyweight, my old one is remarkably similar to your idea (4wd, box, axe)and it only ran at about 8mph, but even at that low speed it mangaged to break my dads toe (could have been alot worse).

the cost of machining s like this (yes even polycarb) could easily stretch into the thousends, i know i didnt get £1000 for christmas :P

also the work in keeping this thing working is just huge! iv easily spent a thousned hours on my bots, now, take it from me that even havin 1 bot is tricky, let alone the 34 that i have :P it sucks up the hours like nohing iv ever had befor :(

and what about when its damaged? (belive me it WILL get damaged)


still want to give it a go? lol, then your either foolish,mad or incredibly brave :Pi only get thru it cos i have a team and a great forum to ask q+a on.

as for parts, i would recamend sla's, a wotty and wheelchair motors, think its be pants? well i manged to beat dantomkia with it ;)

I'm just nearing completion of my first solo heavyweight project and I would catagorically say that it would have been impossible to do even with a 13 year old in tow, never mind when I was one. My robot has cost me well in excess of a grand now and it is basically rubbish. None of the motors Technobots sell are good enough for a heavy and the only way that you're gunna get something plug and play like featherweights is if you spent £500 on motors like I did and even then you can only get them in the States and shipping costs are ridiculous. To get an electric axe that self-rights a 100kg machine is really not possible for anyone who isn't really experienced in mechanical engineering. You can't just bolt one on to a motor shaft. Ever take a look inside Thor or Terrorhurtz? They are phenomenally complicated and precise. You can't just build a featherweight kit and then be ready to build, maintain and transport a heavyweight alone. I'm sorry, but I'm really trying to help. Don't start throwing money at a project that won't ever work when you could get really good at the smaller costs for a fraction of the cost.

Just to let you know the pitfalls of owning a heavyweight.Last year we spent amongst all of the day to day costs of keeping it running the following on And His Army: 2 x Bosch 750 motors @ £110.00 each, 1 x RoboteQ speed controller $500.00 which blew after 8 minutes use ( replaced by RoboteQ), 3 x Hawker batterys gone down @ £90.00 each ( replacement nicad packs £80.00 each). We also had 2 x wheel hubs made which would have cost a good deal had a good friend not made them for us.
All of this resulted in our machine being seeded 7th for this year.It is a rambot so we had no pneumatics or hydraulics to replace or who knows how much more money it would have swallowed up.So I would agree with the others, think long and hard before you decide to start out with a heavy, it is no fun being beaten up all the time, with an unreliable robot that just keeps letting you down, just ask Wendy about Stagefright. :D :D

I'll put it on hold at the moment and keep building ants and feathers....

The only problem is, when you come to fight with the feathers, you can't see them as they're very small and you're fighting with around 10 more.... Very clustered.

George@TeamZog

George,



Yes there are high and low points of building a heavy weight, but speaking as someone who runs events, you are right in what you say feather weights are ok, but they are a show filler, the heavy weights are what people want to see, and if you want to build one go for it.

I for one, am doing my hardest to build up our hobby and keep it going, and we need people to build more robots, especially heavyweights.

I think its plain rude that you've been shot down and put off of building a heavy weight.. What they should have done is help.... thats what i think you wanted.

The first thing you need to get is get the backing of your parents, they will need to be behind you 100%.
And you need to take what they said above on board, costs, weight of the robot, transporting it, getting to events etc...

If you are serious, and have your parents on board, then get them to contact me first so i can chat to them about whats involved.

You have my details already i think. :)

John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.uk

Yes I do have your details. It's just that I have two email addresses. The point is, which one should I email? I've been emailing to your Yahoo one, not the address seen on the main page. Am I emailing the right one? But at the moment, I have got my parents backing (although my Dad claims he doesn't understand the electronics) so they should speak to you.

George@TeamZog

use the roamingrobots.co.uk one

Jonno, there's being rude and then there's being realistic. I have no problem with someone trying to build a heavyweight or any other machine for that matter. I just believe that people should be made aware of the complications in running such a machine.

George, best of luck mate if you do decide to build a heavyweight. Just be careful and if theres one piece of advice I can give you that I wished I had followed on every machine I've built its this,

If it costs a little extra money and time to do something right first time then spend it, you will save twice the cash and time in the long run.

Quote:

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Jonno, there's being rude and then there's being realistic. I have no problem with someone trying to build a heavyweight or any other machine for that matter. I just believe that people should be made aware of the complications in running such a machine.

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I agree with Gary, it's not about being rude, it's realistic. I attempted to build a heavy at that age and got no further than a pop-rivited aluminium chassis and some wheelchair motors that couldn't go backwards - wasted about £50, which is a lot when you're 13. If someone is aware of all the complications and still thinks they can have a go, then yeah, they definately should! It's not just a miserable experience, there are highs and lows, its a real rollercoaster building your own.

On a more positive bit of advice, nowadays you don't have to understand the electronics to build a heavy. I certainly don't, and I'd say a lot of the heavy operators would say the same. I'd recommend getting a Wotty as your speedo, it's pretty much plug and play, sorts all your failsafe issues, and you have Ian Wotts on hand to fix it if ever something goes wrong. He's done a great service to the roboteer community!

there is also a vast aray of knowledge in this community to call upon to in your endevor and the knowledge is freelyavailable ......

Good luck with your project hope to see you at an event soon

Best wishes ..........pete

Ok rude wasn't the right word but we should be positive for people if they want to try.

A couple of hawlkers, a roboteq, two boschs, some wheelchair gearboxes, and away you go.

The electronics aren't hard at all, with speed controllers now it's about 8 wires that's all.

With a bit of help anyone can do it. We don't know who exactly is posting on here, their knowledge, or back ground.

I was racing minis at 10 with my dad, at 13 I was stripping, repairing, developing, and building full blown race engines.

That's all.

My email is john@roamingrobots.co.uk

Hi George, I certainly didn't mean to appear rude and appologise if I did so.If you are going to go for it good luck its a lot of fun, you will make some great friends.I look forward to meeting you inside and outside of the arena.

Ok, so the speedo should be wotty, and the motors - either Bosch or any other cordless drill motor (I'm leaving out wheelchair motors, too slow).

It's quite funny actually. When I first posted everyone's like 'Oh no, don't build one, safety issues (which I know are important - DON'T WORRY, THE LINK WILL BE FAR AWAY FROM THE WEAPON!!), blah...'
And since Jonno gave you all a right talking to :lol: you're now really apologetic. Don't worry though, all of your apologies are accepted. None of you offended me, so dw (no, it doesn't stand for Doctor Who). Basically, I've got £500 (My Nan gave me a £300 check, and the rest is birthday and christmas and stuff I've sold money), and almost all the tools, apart from a welder, but I'm using Polycarb, so I don't need it. I may need a saw though... Meh. I'll use my schools :)

George@TeamZog

cordless drills won't be powerful enough. You need bosch 750s, wheelchair motors with the gearbox removed or another similar motor. Something around 750W mark.

500 quid is doable but you're going to struggle. Ironically you could probably buy a second hand heavyweight at that price if you wait around.

tbh, I would prefer building one, as you get a nice feeling (sounds a bit wrong there) when you finish it. I'm not expecting to complete it in a month, just so then it can compete in fairford...

George@TeamZog

Yeah, cordless drill motors are nowhere near powerful enough. With Bosch's you'll need gears, a gearbox or chain drive, which can get complicated engineering-wise. £500 is do-able, but I wouldn't go expecting too much on that budget. A Wotty alone is close to £300. We built our first heavyweight, Monolith, out of wood and an old wheelchair we got off eBay, using relays to drive it That one still cost us a fair bit, and it lasted for precisely one fight before we had to dismantle it and start again.

You could use Bosh 400 if you can get any ask on the forum if any bodys got any spare. I am using them in my new heavy. test vid of them worklng at 12v dont use them at a higher voltage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWjG_VuonI

As long as they don't give that mosfet whistle then they would be good, yes. Nippy. What ratio should I use them at?

George@TeamZog

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...ers/Apollo.jpg

Basic CAD Drawing of what it will end up looking like...

George@TeamZog

Bosch GPA 400 data sheet: http://www.boschmotorsandcontrols.co...2003/index.htm

You can figure out the gear ratio using the circumference of your wheels, how fast you want to go and the rpm of the motor.

For your first heavyweight robot, just go for wheelchair motors + wheelchair gearboxes + wheelchair wheels. Seriously.

does anybody remember this robot ?

http://www.wjweb.nl/gravity5/g43.jpg

http://www.wjweb.nl/gravity5/g42.jpg

Perfect example of a cheap robot, although if you put more time in it it could even look decent ;)

It had wheelchairmotors/gearboxes/wheels, and 1 sidewinder speedcontroller (can be had for 200 gbp) as a drive system, and it frickin rocked. I had so much fun with it, incapacitating BOTH top of the line drive/rambots (storm2 and tornado) in 1 big heavyweight fight, and also putting dantomkia in the pit ;)

So go ahead, get cheap stuff (but DO get a decent speedo) and have a lot of fun !

the rule of thumb for working out a gearbox ratios...

Take your wheel size in inches and use that gear ratio !

For exambple, 10 inch wheels, use a 10 to 1 ratio.

JOhn

Thats a good tip from Jonno.

I agree about wheelchair motors though, for a first try they are perfect, you don't have to worry about getting them geared up and can even use the wheels that the often come with. You just attach them how you want and you're away.
An earlier team heavy I was involved in, Cabrakan, ran on wheelchair motors and just won last year's best newcomer heavyweight award, so don't count them out as rubbish.

Put a couple of wheelchair motors on 36V and you have a nice drive train. I did take the brakes of of them though.

I believe early on in this thread people were being cautious. I will still say build yourself a featherweight first. The amount of knowledge you can gain will help you on your way to build a heavyweight. Its all fine and dandy to say your parents are backing you but i think your parents dont really understand the task ahead. If i were your parents i would be looking and asking on the forum whats involved in a heavyweight robot.

I personally would start either with one of jonno's ratz or a simple featherweight.

Jonno aparently ticking everyone off........well i think the community were more concerned about your saftey not putting you off building a heavyweight.

Gary had the best idea.......if you really really sure you and your parents can handle a heavy the best thing to do is wait for one to come up for sale and then have a serious lesson on how it works and how to play.

Come to event and have a look at the heavies. Anyone will gladly show you around theirs if you ask them. That gives you a great idea what's involved. I remeber when I first saw them in the flesh and thought God, no, I couldn't build that at all.

Hi mate glad to see that you want to have a go with a Heavy ,its a bit of a tall order not just to build one

but to compete on a level playing field with other heavies, could be a bit soul destroying if and when you

get a battering,----however if you suceed you will have a wonderful experience ,and your learning curve

will go vertical, contact Johnno and as many Roboteers as you can ,visit their websites steal as much

info as you can go for it kiddo , Everything in the world is Engineered, one way or another ,its just

waiting for people like you ,BUT !!!!!!!!!BE SAFE read the FRA safety guide lines (thats what there for)

Enjoy, :angry:

Tony Bulldog Breed, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr der boyz :angry:

Tony,

Theres a blast from the past. when we gonna see you again... even without a robot ???

Have you still got yr robots?

JOhn

Hello mate

When the weather gets warmer I guess, and RR are not too far away , (Ill give em Bullfrog Breed,) :angry:


der boyz :lol:

Forgot to say have still got BB , all muzzled up and ready to scrap,


mans best friend :rofl:


der boyz

OFF TOPIC - Last time you guys posted, was waaayy back in July... Taking a break with the bulldog, were you?

I have read through the safety guidelines before, as soon as I joined, but as you said, I shall read them again. Also, I can't wait to see the bulldog back in action, great robot.

George@TeamZog

Right, I think I've got all the components figured out now:

wheelchair motors + gearboxes,

wotty or sidewinder speed controller,

10mm polycarbonate 2.5m x 2.5m sheet,

Axe pole (coudn't think of another name for it lol) Length 90cm Width 6cm Made out of Ti/steel,

Axe head made out of ti/steel Length 40cm width 10cm.

And of course, wheels!


And a drill, some nuts 'n bolts, some double sided tape, gaffa and a partridge in a pear tree. :lol:

George@TeamZog

...batteries?

Wires, links, power lights, failsafes, axe mechanism, axe power, axe motor, Spectrum radio gear, Spectrum reciever, connectors etc etc.

Well batteries are so obvious that I just didn't mention them (literal translation: I actually forgot :blush: )

So all of what I mentioned and what dgr mentioned as well.

George@TeamZog