Hi all - My first bot (full-body hammer kind of thing).

Hi there, my names Ellis, I'm 13 years old and I'm a newbie in the fighting robots world... or atleast the building part, I was watching Robot Wars before I could use the TV, and have most episodes on tape. I was also very into TechnoGames slightly later on, Scrapheap Challenge, Junkyard Wars etc. So I'm here now to try and fullfull that dream I've had since I was so young.

Ok, well, since this would be my first bot, I'm going for a featherweight. The basic design is a full-body hammer like robot, like Tornado or Storm II from the RW days (obviously, much smaller).

I have the basic design concept in my head, and will soon be making some plans and sketches. What I have in my head so far:

-2, maybe even 4 drill motors, with the gearing system still attached (will make sure the cogs are steel or other, although drills are drills afterall, still worth checking. And I do know that it would be massively heavy).
-ATLEAST 4 wheel drive, looking for 6, and I'd achieve that with chains if I do (much lighter than messing around with cogs, and less mounting and things to deal with).
-Looking for a spinner resistent setup, god knows how I'd achieve that with such a strict weight limit, but maybe leather intertwined with ali would work? (Steel front end, I think, but that means welding would be very hard, any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated).
-No weapons yet, I'm thinking of a shaped wedge/ramp on the front for extra control whilst shoving other bots about. (Basically, a typical ramp, but with a small lip like thing at the top, preventing other robots from just flying over the top when I slam into them, also, if flipped, it wouldn't render the pushing power I have useless, it would just trap the opponent underneith).
-I THINK I'll go with invertible but I'm not sure, I'd need other opinions on things like that.

LOTS OF WRITING *phew*.

So yeah, speedy, lots of torque, skid steering ofcourse and a good driver (RC cars since I was 3, you get quite good after a while! :D)

Also, on a slightly different note, would just being completely RELENTLESS (ie: ramming spinners) repeatedly, and not allowing them to get up to speed be a good tactic?

That's about it. I think.
OH! And the bots name would be Relentless, but I spotted itt's been taken by someone else... So, I was thinking BladeMaster or something would be good. Again, opinions would be great!

NOW GO AND GIVE ME YOUR OPINIONS ON THE IDEAS I'VE HAD! I'll need all the help I can get.

Thanks,
Ellis.

Firstly hello Ellis and welcome to this crazy hobby :proud: hope your designs come to fruition.

Leather and ali wouldn't stop some of the spinners going around...if Nick has his way very little other than a concrete bunker will stop featherweight spinners, but he's certifiably mad :P Your best bet would be either steel or Hardox (which is a wearplate steel from Swedenland!), if you're not using any active weapons and have a small enough chassis you can probably go for that all around. I'd advise at least 4mm thickness, possibly with 10mm or more of some plastic behind it, bear in mind Hardox only comes in 3.25mm and above thicknesses.

Go for 4wd with 4 drill motors rather than 2 motors and chains, chains mean extra work to get the wheels aligned so they don't come off, tensioning, and they can come off mid battle...as it's your first machine you want it as simple as possible.

I'd definitely go invertible, a few robots have tried self righting hoops but those can be hit and miss, and also get ripped off :P with the amount of flippers and wedge type machines around you're best off being invertible or having an active method of self righting (which will eat into your weight)

Regarding the tactic of ramming spinners and not letting them get up to speed, that's pretty much all you can do with spinners :P

Hope this helps.

Ok, so, invertible it is. That WAS my initial intention, since after watching some of these bot fights on Youtube, it's very rare that one won't get flipped over.

And, regarding drills, I've got a pretty low budget, would lower-end do? (cordless, ofcourse).

Oh. And one more thing, invertible means armour on both bottom and top of the bot, and since they are the 2 most unlikely spots of a bot to get damaged, I could surely go with thick plastic? Or plexyglass or something... I'm just trying to get the best power to weight ratio I can. Light and fast can mean weak, but heavy and strong can mean sluggish. I want the best halfway point, drifting towards the lighter side, speed and agility being the key.

ARGH, god knows, I don't know. How about slightly more exotic metals like Kevlar?

Kevlar ain't a metal, lol.

In terms of strength to weight ratio, grade 5 titanium is the best material out there for armour - it's expensive stuff, however, and pretty unnecessary unless you REALLY need to keep the weight down. I reckon your best bet is to armour up with a big 3.2 or 4mm hardox wedge...actually, you could realistically armour the whole thing with hardox. There's at least two nasty crusher / axe bots out there so if you've got the weight one might as well stick at least something on the top and bottom, especially as you'll probably end up bolting a lot of your components to the bottom plate. Ali is a good bet for the bottom plate - though get some decent engineering grade material (6082/7075/etcetera). Avoid plexiglass or similar plastics - the 2 best for robot purposes are polycarbonate and UHMW polyethylene (which is a bit flexible, good for outer armour, not so good for structural parts).

12v cordless drills are pretty much all the same, so get the cheapest ones you can :-) you can always build the motor combination yourself later. Personally, if you want to do something like Tornado or Storm, I'd say you have to look above just drill motors as they're really nothing special - the key to those two robots was their extremely powerful drivetrains. You may want to think about using 6 motors, or bigger ones (18 volt DeWalt hammerdrill motors or RS775/Speed 700 motors come to mind), to get the effect you're looking for.

As for the lightness issue - the only reason to use lighter materials is to be able to stick in more of them, or other components. Building anything lighter than the weight limit is just not a good idea - you end up lacking traction (so you can't push effectively), you lack momentum so your ramming attacks aren't as effective, and you end up flying miles when you get flipped or hit by a vertical spinner.

Joey, I'm not mad :-P just a bit more ambitious in engineering terms than you :twisted:

Ok, well, I am only a beginner, and have NO idea what would be good for what, could you possibly link me to something you would see as decent? (Motors wise).

And thanks for the helpful comments guys, keep 'em coming.

Here's probably the easiest off the shelf solution: http://www.robotpower.com/products/magnum775_info.html

Basically it's a planetary gearbox designed for a RS775 sized motor, which is a good step above a drill motor in terms of output power - in fact a couple of those would do a good job of powering a pushy featherweight, with the option of upgrading to four at some later date when you're feeling a fair bit richer.

A robot with a couple of those (or a similar drivetrain) powering it and a big ground scraping hardox wedge on the front stands a pretty good chance of being really effective. :)

Fantastic! Thanks man.

Now, I'm thinking chassis and armour again. I like the idea of a mainly ali or possibly thick polycarbonate shell, with a steel or some other HARD metal for the front scoop/wedge like thing. Titanium for now is just too expensive, and I have no idea where I could get it localy, I mean, postage via the internet is an option but it would much harder to get it just how I want it.

So, I think titanium can be ruled out for now. So that leaves, thick plastics, steel, ali, and very basic cheap iron. Iron can be ruled out I think, it's quite heavy as far as I know and not massively strong. Cheap though, and I can get it locally.

Ali, obviously, I can't weld it. Which could be a problem, but it's a fairly cheap option that I can get localy.

I like the idea of polycarbonate, maybe not for the side and back panels but for the lid? and the belly it could be good.

And I'm pretty set on steel for the wedge-like bit, simply because it'd give me alot of strengh and a good amount of weight on the front, for extra BASHIN' POWAH!

Lol. Any other metals that aren't crazy expensive?

EDIT: I am in Spain, English, but in Spain. So that particular motor is no use since the postal cost + taxes is just too much for me at the moment. English websites are great, since it'll be much cheaper and faster. Anyone got a similiar thing for the UK? Or even, Ebay? Second hand motors, is that a bad idea?

By the way, I am looking on google myself, I'm not going to sit back and let other people do the work, it's just that someone might know a good source.

Hi Ellis, and welcome to the forum.

There's been some good ideas and information mentioned so far, hopefully they'll help towards your design.

Take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28_rB...om=PL&index=49

Umm, kind of, it looked like that bot was more speed than push but it looked about right. And that was with drill motors? Wow.

Ok, well, great, thanks. That makes things much easier!

One more hurdle. Wheels, where the hell can I get wheels?! 100mm... I have no idea if that sounds right or not. Hehe.

Anyone know any good UK suppliers?

I believe Robo Challenge sell special 100mm blue wheels that screw directly onto the shaft of drill motors, so they should be a good bet for you if your using drills.

Ok, thanks all, I'm sadly going on a family trip (NOOOOOOO) right when things start getting interesting. So, I'll probably loose inspiration since I've only just got started.

So, see you in about 4 days :x

EDIT: Wait, this is basically the robot I'd be building, only, mine would be smaller and more compact allowing for thicker armour. http://www.roamingrobots.co.uk/?pages=robot&id=1049
I'd hope for mine to be a little faster too.

Hi there

welcome

i like it how everyone has over looked a good building material.....wood

block of wood one of the cheapest bots, but it can take most abuse in 2007 it came 4th at uk champs against spinners

however this isn't a challenge for the spinner people :P

also go for plastic as top armour...much more entertaining for some of us :twisted:

alex

Lol.

Wood.

Maybe... :lol: Still like metal though :D

dont knock wood hehe , I have found that mdf has similar properties to hdpe , obviusly hdpe is stronger , but mdf has done me proud :) It took a head on hit from battleaxe's hammer and was still intact :)(same couldnt be said for the rest of the bot)

A good design also adds strength such as supporting the armour in its middle so it can't bend as much etc.

I point you in the direction of the RioBotz tutorial:

http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/foru...utorial#p90784 - the forum topic is here

http://www.riobotz.com.br/en/tutorial.html - download from here

It's long but ruddy good and has a lot on minimum weight building (very useful), the calculations behind things (even more useful) and also data on materials etc.

Ok, well, I'm back from that family trip like thing and ofcourse, I no longer have any inspiration and I feel asthough I'm crazy to believe I could build a robot.

:evil:

Btw, downloading that tut now, and wow, it IS long! :o

That's some light reading for me :)

It's more of a book than a tutorial. I think it's marginally better than build your own combat robot which costs money :angry: (although it's still a good book to have.)

Ok...
After watching feather and lightweight rumbles and regular fights. I don't see all that many bots getting flipped, now, I know that's a silly thought, but making something that can run both ways up is highly restricting.

So, I've had a change of heart:

Still going for high speed and maneuverability, and if I can, good ramming power, I'd LIKE to build a hammer or axe-bot (whatever they call them, a robot with an axe, basically).

Basic design would be...
A fairly basic box, with a slightly raised and curved top, sloping maybe slightly curved sides and rear, a strong small scoop running the width of the robot at the front as low down as possible, preferably with no ground clearence (still hoping to be able to shove if needed :D ) and a huge, high speed, NICE and sharp axe on top, powered by a motor of some sort.

My brain is going crazy with designs but this one stood out to me, and y'never know, by putting Turn me over and fight like a man on the bottom (IF the axe for whatever reason doesn't work as a SRiMech) might get a few to turn me back over, if I got stuck! :wink:

It would be a struggle getting inside 13.6kg but I don't think it's impossible... Maybe I could laminate the armour... Suggestions?

Oh, and, obviously, name would be changed xD, suggestions there too please.

-Ellis :proud:

EDIT: Wait, how can I change the title of the topic?!

What about an invertible hammer?

http://www.teamsaber.com/fusion.html

To better push things you could put a scoop on the front to get under other robots (with a gap in the middle for the hammer to pass through.

In my mind something a bit like this (http://robot-club.com/teamtoad/halfpipe.html) with the slot and a hammer.

Finally, if the gear ratio was correct then a crude lifting fork thing could be exchanged for the hammer providing another option for different opponents (i.e. lifter for pushers so you can remove their traction and the hammer where you need agression)

Thing is realistically you'd want access to a machine shop or at least a lot of money (to get parts made) in order to do a decent axe. If you want real power in it, you'll be looking at running pneumatics as well, which require a fair bit of effort. You'd probably want to do a rack and pinion system, which is pretty simple and lightweight - http://news.terrorhurtz.com/axe/default.htm has a good overview of how a successful one (in Terrorhurtz) works and some drawings.

Thanks for the links guys.

I don't especially like the invertible hammer design. I want something to pierce not pound.
And as for the pneumatics, I think a Magmotor or something as heavy and robust, at a ratio of maybe 4:1 (1:4? Which way round does it go?! :lol: ) would do fine... For a first bot atleast.

I've just realised, what I'd be making is a flattened mini X-Terminator with it's axe installed.

Keep the suggestions coming, don't hold back becuase osmething might be expensive.

And why can't I edit the topic title?!

Although pneumatics is the way to go for a powerful axe, a motor powered one that has a high rate of fire would show agression and could make the difference in a fight.

I agree that access to a machine shop would seriously help in building your robot for accuracy's sake unless you happen to be willing to do drawings/templates for everything, have a steady hand and a great amount of patience. Also, be prepared for things to not fit if you do try to build your robot by hand.

On the subject of names: Blademaster still sounds good as a name for an axe but less so for a hammer. Possibly something like Anvil for a hammer/pusher combo.

If you're going to spend the money on an axe setup powered by a Magmotor, and the controls for it, you might as well go for the pneumatics IMO... get an axe mechanism machined up (Kenny at ALK Engineering, in the commercial section, did a great job for me) and build everything else up off off-the-shelf components.

Pneumatics can be very dangerous though, so you'd be needing advice from someone with a lot more experience.

I know of an American 30 lb robot that uses a Dewalt drill motor for a hammer.

Remember, you can always use a different head (sharp rather than a hammer) to provide a piercing action. However, you will quickly blunt a sharp head against things armoured in hard stuff like hardox and not get through it easily, so something blunt is more preferable providing shock damage.

Then maybe a verticle disk?

It's just all that's been done a million times before, and has the same effect. It IS effective but just boring, watching bots fly up into the air thanks to a verticle spinner..

Nah. I don't know why I'm really letting myself think about building fighting robots. School starts in a week, I don't have any money and I live in a dried up corner of Spain!

I'm f_cking tricking myself into thinking something is possible when it's not, especially since my dad has work, my mum doesn't have ANY kind of background in this area, and is working, and my sister doesn't give 2 sh_ts.

It's all coming together now, I just don't have the slightest hope of completing anything.

Unfortunately, spinners can't compete as often as non-spinners as there are few arenas that can take them.

Don't be disheartened though. You can make it a project that you spend an hour or two on at the weekend in your free time. If you get some designs down on paper then you can build a driving base from that and compete in whiteboard fights to gain some experience.

Or you could always build an antweight :)

What are whiteboard fights?

HOW DO I CHANGE TOPIC TITLE.

Whiteboards are friendly fights so you can practice against other robots without being badly damaged as weapons etc. are turned down.

To change the topic title you will have to ask admin or a moderator nicely and they'll change it for you but you don't really need to.

Completely forgot about Rex's robot challenge earlier on which can be found here online: http://www.rrc.dannysrobots.co.uk/

Using drills and drill batteries instead would give you more weight for better armour and weapons (you also have an extra ~1.6kg to play with due to an increase in weight allowance since then.)

You could have a go at the pneumatics in that for a weapon or a windscreen wiper motor as an alternative weapon drive with more torque than a drill (as a windscreen wiper usually contain worm gears) which could be a useful lifting weapon drive.

Never had to ask before :o

Ugh... Ok. I'll check out that link tomorrow, it's VERY late (or early, as in morning) so I'm not quite thinking straight :?

I'll try to get back into it but this trip has completely destroyed my determination.

'NiteNite

-Ellis

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Thing is realistically you'd want access to a machine shop or at least a lot of money (to get parts made) in order to do a decent axe.

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I'm guessing Ellis that you don't have access to a machine shop or a lot of money to spend on getting parts made, but that doesn't mean that you won't be able to have a decent axe/hammer robot. Maybe if you want one of the best axes in the business the above stuff would help, but it is perfectly possible to build a decent axe with a few basic power tools and some patience. Never underestimate what can be achieved in a back garden with a low-cost 'Workmate' bench, some simple hand/power tools and sheer determination.

This robot is from Australia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl1cOdXizC8

Now watching that video you may be thinking; that it flips over easily, that soft drinks cans are a lot easier to pierce than robot armour etc, but this is just to give you an idea of what is possible with a simpler mechanism.
All that is used in that axe setup is an electric scooter motor, a chain and a couple of sprockets, a go-kart wheel hub, a shaft and a commercial axe implement (machete, log-splitter etc)

Making the above axe mechanism can be found here:
http://www.robowars.org/wikka/ElectricAxeWeapons
(this is an older version of the same robot, so the mechanism is exactly the same)

I remember someone talking about using a Magmotor to power an axe but they were talking about ratios of 20:1 I think, so 4:1 may not be enough. Pneumatics add a bit of complexity to proceedings and of course there is the safety aspect that comes with working with high pressure gas.

Realistically you're not going to be able to pierce Hardox-armoured robots with an axe regardless of whether its electric-powered or pneumatic-powered. What is achievable is puncturing thinner steels, polycarbonate and most other plastics of mid-thickness in robots (maybe about 6mm, more if your axe is more powerful) and wood.
If you want to go for an axe I'd suggest using the electric scooter method because:
a) its the cheapest method of the three
b) it can be pretty effective in the arena
c) it is possible to build it in your back garden with basic tools
d) your motivation to build a robot seems to be wavering slightly. If you spent loads of money on pneumatics or a Magmotor then lost interest, its quite an expense you've incurred. Going for the cheaper option means that even if you do lose interest (hopefully you don't, its a really good and fun hobby/sport :)) you've still incurred an expense but it won't be nearly as much as a pneumatic or Magmotor setup will be.

Ok. You've made me want to carry on now! :rofl:

Yeah, I don't have all that much money, my parents have said that they'll support me WITHIN REASON so, pneumatics as you say are probably a bit ambitious for right now. I'd be happy with an axe that can do that to a can from above. And I probably have access to a scrapyard where I can get such a motor, all be it a second hand one.

Also, for drive motors, I'm still going to use 4 drill motors, because it's cheap, lol.

Oh, and thanks for the awesome reply :)

hiya, welcome to the forum :)

what tools do you have access to?

if you dont have a grinder or welder alot of people seem to do well from using plastics as mentioned above. from mine- and alot of other peoples experiances your first robot will break or have a problem of some sort lol, make urself a simple ram bot, bring it to a few events and get a feel for it. work out the bugs and add a weapon after :)

I have grinders, an old-school welder, drills galore, plenty of space etc etc.

Just not much money :3

hey

just thought id introduce myself relentless, im jack, i believe you watched a robot guide that i did on youtube, well just so you know il be doing a featherweight one soon :) although the weapon will be a crusher.

listen to these guys, they know what they're talking about, me , well i make it up as i go along :P

ta

jack

Can't wait for that feather tut, and I will, now all I need to do is get my mum to drive me to where I can get 4 cordless drills, sheet ali and some kind of strong plastic. I'll be getting the motor for the axe from Amazon or something if I can't get a decent one from a scrapyard.

I'm just going to push my mum and dad until they start getting those funny little veins in there forehead, lol.

Oh, and, (I'm all pumped up now, :P ) I'll need wheels, would Meccano wheels be a good bet? They're plastic in the middle but quite small and very rubbery, I have 2 types of tyre, here are both:
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0858/Meccano_wheels_1
And something to give you an idea of how big they are:
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0311/Meccano_wheels_2 (XBOX controller, lol)

Pretty tough plastic, designed to withstand children :shock: :rofl:

I'm off to make a list, my mum has agreed (after much hard work) to sit with me and see where they f_ck I can get these crazy materials!

were are you from? some people on here might be able to advise some local supplyers.

If you need a good motor for your axe on the cheap, go to a scrapyard, explain what the motors for, and they will probably have a car fan motor- there pretty powerful on 24v. Just tell them any fan motor from any car and see what motors they have already taken of cars. They will probably do it you pretty cheap if you say what its for. 10quid probably.

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Originally Posted by team_orr

they know what they're talking about

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I only look like I know what I'm talking about :rofl:

I think those wheels might be a little bit small and I don't think that they're designed to handle the stresses of robot combat.

Edit: If you do go to a scrapyard for a fan motor to power your hammer, bring scales so you can keep your robot in weight.

Axe thing is out, far too complicated, going for pure strengh and power, like before.

My dad has shown some interest, and it turns out my school doesn't start til' the 15th, so, yeah, I might start a build diary soon!

Wish me luck!

EDIT: Oh, I'm from England but live in a tiny little town in the south of Spain, lol, I doubt any of you guys live near here :rofl: