Full pressure flippers

does anyone know the easiest way to
get a ram to operate on full pressure for h/w
robot similar to the likes of kronic,turbulence
where the rod of the ram does not connect to the flipper, Its a bit much for me to try and pull
cylinders apart and remachine ends etc Id probably blow it all up !!
There must also be robots that use normal cylinders moded for the full pressure that are connected to the flipper like a vdma 16bar,
would this be easier to do ??
valves and pipes are no probs and my buffer will
be a 2kg bottle.
Cheers
Terry.

Do not use standard pneumatic cylinders/rams at full pressure. Even one rated at 16 bar is a long way short for running at up to 70 bar.

Almost all the guys running full-pressure flippers are using custom made rams, not modified pneumatic rams. The only other alternative is using a hydraulic ram.

Ours is custom built from a solid bar of amuminium. The old one we used was a hydraulic ram, that might be the best way to go.

maybe I will just get a hydraulic ram it will be easier, I saw a nice one on a forklift truck yesterday !!
wonder if they would miss it !
It looked like 60 bore and 160 travel (ish)
dave how does kronic retract, does the weight of the flipper arm bring it back in or is it co2 ?
what valves do you use for full pressure I
thought technobots had some 70 bar well they might have only been 50 bar but they dont have any know, do you have to use valves intended for higher than 70 bar so they are safer ??

Terry most people use bungee cord to help pull the flipper ar down, Kronic, Turbulence and Merlin all do.

The valve about all FP users use is the Burkert 5404.

And to compare, most FP users in heavies are using the Gravity ram as a yardstick. 100mm bore and 180mm stroke, fed by 2 Burkerts trough a buffertank,and 1 Burkert for exhaust.

Beast uses a hydralic ram 55 tons it weighed 25kg ram only then i machined it down to about 12kg it also has a spring inside which pulls ram back down, well that was the past i have a Mario ram now and will have to make sure the bungy brings ram back down, new ram = about 5 kg

Terry we have a 58mm bore in our feather weight

Jaksa were I believe the re-branded valves available thru Technobots.

http://www.jaksa.si/English/group04.htmlhttp://www.jaksa.si/English/group04.html

Number 2 in the group being the equiv of a Bukert 5404.

Both the U.K. companys below list these valves.

http://www.alphacontrols.co.uk/alpha.products.solenoid.html#jaksahttp://www.alphacontrols.co.uk/alpha...oid.html#jaksa

http://www.betavalve.com/piston.asphttp://www.betavalve.com/piston.asp

(Message edited by woody on April 19, 2008)

Having bought valves from both of these companies in the past, only one of them at the time were agents for Jaksa but I cannot remember which one. The other supplier supplied a valve that did not have quite the same build quality. For the price though, a good alternative to Burkerts which were always over priced in my opinion.

Both valve brands work great. We used to have a couple of those Alpha branded valves and they do have a couple of advantages over the Burkert.

For one, they are lighter than the Burkert which for a feather can be a serious consideration. Secondly, the internals are a bit less complex, making them less vunarable to swarf. All valves are vunerable to swarf, but so far the Alpha seem to be a little bit more forgiving.

We mainly use Burkerts in Holland because they are easier for us to get hold of. But weve had good experiences with the Alpha/Jaksa valves as well.

has anyone else had problems getting on parts of the forum ??
mario, when you said the Gravity ram did you mean any ram that is free to vent to atmosphere on the retract side so any ram will do with just 1 air inlet on the extend side ?
is there a specific place to obtain a hydraulic ram or do I just go to a tractor shop ?
buying a modded one would be easier from another robot.
ive looked at the info on the valves and am wondering which mone i require as there was lots of types there was only a few that were 1/2 and alot were well under pressure but a few were 100+ bar
ive looked for the Bukert 5404 and have had no luck in locating any, is a specific size eg
120bar g1/2

http://hosebuilder.com/Valves/BURKERT-Solenoid-ValvesAccessories/22-High-Pressure-Brass-Solenoid-Valve-Type-5404/p-645-652-6026/22-High-Pressure-Brass-Solenoid-Valve-Type-5404.htmhttp://hosebuilder.com/Valves/BURKER...2-High-Pressur e-Brass-Solenoid-Valve-Type-5404/p-645-652-6026/22-High-Pressure-Brass-Solenoid- Valve-Type-5404.htm

http://www.valves-online.co.uk/acatalog/Type_5404_High_pressure_0-50_Bar.htmlhttp://www.valves-online.co.uk/acata..._0-50_Bar.html

Two examples of a quick Google search.

1/2 50 Bar max working pressure ...overvolting the solenoid is needed to make it work at 1000 psi ( 64 bar ).

You can find the spec sheets on my CO2 page..

http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/co2_info.htmhttp://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/co2_info.htm

(Message edited by woody on April 21, 2008)

And I thought RS components was expensive with their Burkerts.

Terry, the Gravity ram uses 3 valves. 2 inlet and 1 outlet.
The 660 grams of an extra Burkert isnt the big issue on a heavy, were it is a serious problem in a feather.
You refer to the Cutlet system, what is about standard in the FP using feathers atm. There 1 burkert does the feed, and a tiny, 1mm or 1.5mm bore exhaust hole empties the ram when the valve is shut- during the open Burkert CO2 is vented.

On availablity of hydraulic or FP rams. I cant tell you any spots in the UK where to get them, but in Belgium I do know exactly. Mail me for more information.

woody, I did find the burkert 5404 at lots of places but I was looking for a type more than 70 bar, I didnt know that it could be used for that pressure until I looked on your site.
I run on 30 volts but the batteries are a bit more at start of fights so would 24v coil be ok ?

what exactly is the mario ram ?
would this be better than a hydraulic ram ?

the cheapest ive found the burkert 5404 is £77.50 + vat from rs.

Hi Terry,

30 Volts is fine ...the valve coils are rated @ 24v continious and youll be just clicking it on and off.

A ram of the style made by Mario would be my choice for you.

Terry,
Ive sent you an email with some pics of F.P. Mario rams.

BTW ..You can find Mario , myself and other Forum members on MSN/Windows Messenger should you wish to chat.

(Message edited by woody on April 23, 2008)

Terry,

maddox10@hotmail.com if you want to email or chat.

On the Burkert 5404 type. The body was tested by Mike lambert (Dantomkia) and it was proof to 200bar +.The main problem is the sleight variation to operating pressure between the valves; Some of these valves will happely control 55bar@24V to the coil, others wil fail. But overvolting to 30-36V makes the coil stronger and will open the burkert valve at a way higher pressure (above the 1000psi-69 bar RW limit)

(Message edited by maddox on April 23, 2008)

Hi Terry
A Mario Ram is a hand built full pressure ram that can be made to your exact specification (bore / stroke ).
These rams have been fitted in various bots thoughout the years and have been found to both reliable and very effective (gravity bot for example)For more information PM mario in belguim or catch him on MSN to discuss your needs ..

Cheers Tony

Or through Marios Agent Tony F by the sounds of it. LMAO!!!

Mr Stu

For that ill set my pet spider BORIS on ya ....:crazy:

Now now boys!

Mario ive seen the pics of some of your rams and they look the nads,just how much wonga are we talking about for exactly the same as
the 6 kg 100mm bore 180mm stroke Gravity III ram, to make things easy as you have already made at least 1, im sure I could fit it in
I wonder what strokes other robots are using
must be close to 180mm

nothing wrong with good old low pressure :)

Has anyone tried graphite powder in their HP rams? I use lanolin in my ram ATM, but I wonder if the dust that gets stuck in there will increase the friction.

i use lithium grease has lube in the ram good stuff, sticks to the side walls and is a very good grease

We just use paintball oil and it works like a charm.

sorry for this, I was looking through some old threads and wondered what the BUMP button did,
well I know now :lol: :lol:
went back to 2003 too, some old stories, brings back memories :!: