Cutting/ Drilling Titanium

We have just picked up some titanium with thicknesses ranging from 1.6- 5mm can someone give us some tips for cutting and drilling it.

Thanks

Will
http://www.teamshock.4mg.comwww.teamshock.4mg.com

avoid grinding it- the sparks are explosive and cancerous, mill it, saw it, whatever..

Drilling, take it slow, use lubricant, if you get it hot, youve had it.. the hotter it gets, the harder and more brittle it becomes.

Any idea what grade youve got? I found grades from 4 downwards (the un alloyed titaniums) are pretty easy to work with, GR5-AL (Somthing like that, carnt remeber the exact code) is a pain.

You can grind it if you take a lot of precautions (open air, breathing mask, proper grinder protection) although I have set myself on fire with it before.

Drilling I would use HSS drill bits and ALOT of lubricant to keep it cool as dave says. I have used cobalt drill bits (great for hardox) but they blunt far quicker with it.

As I have ground, disc cut and welded Ti a number of times I am interested to know how/why it is cancerous (carcenogenic (might be spelt wrong!)).
If this is the case, as well as explosive!!! there should be some advise available, can the FRA help? this should also be the subject of a new thread in Safety Discussions.
PS keep your drills very sharp and cool.
PPS whilst grinding I set fire to my jeans in the crown jewels department the other day, I was left with a big hole in them!!! The jeans!

Titanium dust and titanium dioxide(the bright white sparks) arent known for toxic effects.

A bit of Googling will learn you that.

Titanium dioxide is even used as food coloring (E 171).

Always wear safety gear while working on your robot.
Especially when using grinding equipment, wear a face mask/ respirator.
Dust does not need to be toxic to cause breathing difficulty and related complaints.

Youve just rung a bell Leo, on checking my toothpaste Ive found it contains titanium dioxide!
Titanium may not be explosive either (more info please) but the sparks can toast your nadgers!

I bet Dead Metal wishes he knew titanium exploded before he spend 5 years sending it spraying across the robot wars arena.

Ill be phoning my gran to warn her about her fake hip :)

I always thought that Ti alloy had magnesium in which is why the sparks are so hot.

They use the titanium oxide in fireworks and what not and i heard that grinding dust of it can be ignited.

The person who told me not to grind it has WAY WAY more experiance then anyone on this forum- the head of titanium industries uk.

James i dont want to imagine your gran grinding her hips away.

Ed, it depends on the titanium,

Alpha type titaniums contain aluminiums, oxygen, nitrogen. wereas beta types contain molybdenum, iron, vanadium, chromium, manganese etc blah blah

titanium has been known to catch fire easily, 360s disc caught fire when we were making it- i through some tango on it though so it was ok lol.. sam smith told me about the large titanium turbine blades in jets which can spontaniously catch fire once.

I believe mark lumb also told me at the euro champs that he didnt want to angle grind little spinners blade off because the dust that comes off can cause cancer. (he made Glyn do it i think lol)

Personal insight...

Titanium swarf can ignite. The reaction is like magnesium burning. Perhaps brighter. Biggest danger is setting fire to nearby objects - very hot.

When grinding anything, silicon carbide (or whatever the disc is made of) will be ground into the air. Titanium is particularly resistant to grinding and so will wear the disc far more, releasing far more dust. Again, inhaling any dust is not good for you.

(Message edited by kane on January 22, 2008)

Thanks kane, i therefor stand by my initial statement- i dont advise you grind it.

Yep, when dave threw the tango on it, the laithe bed was shining very brightly lol.it didnt smell too good after the tango either!

the titanium got tangoed just like some of the girls in my school :rofl:

Advising not to grind Ti and claiming it is cancerous is quite a step though. In effect grinding as a rule should be avoided if possible, specially if you need to weld the material afterwards.

We had it with aluminum that welds way worse after we grinded the piece in the shape we wanted. the parts we used the guillotine for created a much nicer weld (fewer contaminations in the aluminium).

I dont even like Ti that much, I feel it is highly overated material anyway.

I love Ti, if it was edible, I€™d eat it!!

i heard that if you inhail ti then it grows inside and forms the shape of new limbs. in fact this is how the first robot was produced, like all things on accident. An engineer once had to grind a big piece of ti. it took him 3 days solid but in the mean time the ti was gradually inhailed and formed new limbs and destroyed the original ones and viola a robot was born. mysteriously though he didnt realise this and started to grind him self away... not knowing the difference obviously until he him self was just dust! thats why there is no proof.

:rofl:

James i want whatever uve just taken.

Leo- the most probable reason for your welds being rubbish on ground material is because it wasnt clean. Grindings a messy process. Titanium and aluminium both have to be very clean to weld well. I pressume you know that though.

Grant- atleast it stoped the fire abit lol, though tbf we were laughing for a good minuite before we realised it was getting dangerous :)

Ive got a couple of decent books from my sponsor about everything anyone would want to possibly know about titanium.. ill look up the carsagenic (sp?) rumour that i got told.

I personaly like Ti, its has good strength relative to weight and high impact resistance. Im not that keen on building robots out of plastics / polymers - no offence to anyone intended, I just prefer metal .. makes it more robot like imo and generally components last alot longer.

Thr properties of titanium make it so much btter for things like chassiss etc than other materials like aluminium/steel. Mainly being able to make the whole chassis for 360 VERY VERY light, and very strong. The same style as ploughbots chassis. I had alot more problems with my steel version than the titanium one. Its flexi too -which actually very helpful.

I think its expensive, a pain in the rear to weld, and difficult to repair in the field.

my opinion.

Thanks for all of the help.

Can you cut it with a hacksaw and/or jigsaw?? If so what type of blades should it use??

Thanks

Will
http://www.teamshock.4mg.comwww.teamshock.4mg.com

I used a jigsaw on some grade 2 2mm thick with a brand new metal cutting blade (it was an expensive one). After a 600mm cut the blade teeth had melted and my jigsaw nearly blew. Managed it mind you.

I would look at getting it laser cut if you can. Nice and simple, not too expensive as far as i know and it will be precise.

I agree with gary, I have always used an angle grinder for straight simple peices, or if its thin enough the bandsaw. Anything complicated i just get laser-cut.
Leo -I dont find it difficult to weld at all, alot easier than aluminium.

Did you happen to get all that titanium of ebay (about 15 sheets) by any chance lol

he got it off me lol

will - a hacksaw is fine, just keep it cool.

didnt know you had any 1.6?

oh- thought you were on about gary. But i do have some 1.6, not much though

quote:

Leo -I dont find it difficult to weld at all, alot easier than aluminium.Aluminium is also a pain to weld.

Just because one is less difficult than the other doesnt make it any easier. To do it right that is.

as long as you keep ali clean, file the edges before you weld it goes fine.

The same as titanium really, i think if you have a good tig welder and can do a good clean weld on steel, titanium is no different.

Titanium needs lots of Argon and shouldnt weld for too long. But it welds very nicely. Easier than Ali by a long way.

Old thread but i thought id drag it up rather than create a new one. What are the best drill bits to use? I have seen HSS recomended but is there any better? cost isnt too much of a prob for this. also countersinking, what countersink bits would you use? Cheers

Use HSS.

I have tried both HSS and cobalt drill bits on titanium and whilst the cobalt are better on very hard materials such as hardox they just get very hot and blunted on titanium. USE PLENTY OF COOLANT TOO!