How Could I Improve...

Lets get down to basics. There has been a few newcomers that have emerged recently, of which they have immediately dived into writing battles and creating vapourbots. However, being newcomers they obviously aren€™t going to get everything perfect straight away. Obviously this is a little frustrating for the majority of us who have been doing this for a good 6 or 7 years now, and in some cases even longer. We€™ve had the practice and we€™ve come to expect the goods from everyone.

This got me thinking how I started out. As I stated in the Vapourbot Awards, I was nowhere near as good as the recent crop of newcomers when I started out, yet now I have been voted into the Vapourboteers Hall of Fame. How did I improve? Those that were more experienced than me, and knew what they were talking about opened up a thread. This thread allowed anyone and everyone, not just newcomers, to post their stats in the thread and receive recommendations. Once I had my vapourbots checked and corrected, I soon went on to win my first ever tournament.

So, now is the time that I have decided to help those less experienced than me, just as those helped me out all those years ago. Not just newcomers, but everyone that is interested - you can post your vapourbot stats or battles here and recommendations will be given. Not just by me, as I think its clear there is a lot of things I do not know. I€™m asking everyone to help everyone out. As much as I hate to say it, these fights over a bit of fun are hilarious but wouldn€™t it be better if we had a real competitive division where anyone could win?

Give me yours thoughts and comments on this. Or even better, give us some stats and battles to analyse! :)

You want battles Ill fish one out of my brain
Disc-o-inferno vs Gravity
3-2-1-activate
Theyre off Gravity wants to end this quickly whereas the opposite for Disc-o-inferno and as Gravity goes for the swoop Disc-o-inferno drives away and as Gravity swerves to stop themselves from hitting the arena side wall Disc-o-inferno spins around to meet Gravity Disc first Kerrash! is Gravity alright yes he is but I think his flippers buckled not ripped clean off just buckled. Disc-o-inferno reverses towards the pit switch and the pit goes down Gravity goes charging headfirst tosses Disc-o-inferno up and Rrrippp!Gravity has destroyed their own weapon but is Disc-o-inferno OK its caught between the pit and the side grinders. Gravity goes trundling along towards Disc-o-inferno. WJ is beginning to become more happy as he realises that its all over if he takes things slowly. Gravity is trundling along more slowly and as he reaches his prey. He pushes him down the pit then falls down himself.
Cease
Disc-o-inferno dances with the devil and pays the price. Gravity wins this exhibition match.

For one thing, how can Disc-O-Inferno get caught between the pit and angle grinders, unable to move? Surely it would have been able to move from that position, right? It would have easily avoided that slow attack. :S

For another, how can Gravity rip their own flipper off? Thats never happened to them before, or to any other robot ever. Flippers rams have exploded, and panels get torn off, but the whole flipper cant get ripped off by its own force. :S

Would you like to clarify this, Timmy? :)

Well Disc-o-inferno was caught with one of its wheels on the pit and Gravitys flipper got buckled so when it tossd Disc-o-inferno over its Flipper Panel got ripped off. Plus I wrote that at 3:30Am.

Plus I wrote that at 3:30Am.

Timmy, if you genuinly want to improve you better post your best battles and ask everyones opinion on THOSE rather than fishing something out of your brain at 3:30Am. This doesnt give us a very good impression on your skills and gives us a harder time to help you.

Really, the only advice I can give you right now is put more effort in your battles and dont right them at 3.30AM

Sorry its just that I was bored.

Ive had a flipperarm come off from my own flip.

Ive got a design which might work
Name: Fairground Killride

Weight:100KGS

Dimensions: 23CMX88CMX75CM

Shape: Do you know that fairground ride where it spins you around then up then down well that.

Wheels: 2 Small rubber grip wheels powered by 48V Eteks.

Motors: 8X48V Magmotors and 1 48V Etek.

Speed: 3mph

Turning Circle: Robot:0m Weapon:20m

Armour: 48MM Titanium and 36MM Hardex.

Ground Clearence: With Skirts 0CM all around without skirts 48MM Ground Clearence.

Weapons: A small Gyro Swing with hooks on the back of the seats. It spins so it twirls upwards hooks up the enemy flings them up then goes back down and goes both ways at 30MPH. In theory it can rip a robots armour clean seeing as it spins at 3222RPM and so uses up the 6 of the 8 magmotors just for the weapon.

Other: Its based on Maelstrom in Drayton Manor Theme park but even more deadly.

Ive considered writing a battle or two, but I doubt Id be any good at it.

On the other hand, as Im always interested in criticism/flames, I do have a robot to post:

NAME: If Cats Had Wheels, We Could Have Cat Races, How Cool Would That Be? or Cat With Wheels for short.
SHAPE: Wedge with sloped sides.
COLOUR: Like a Tabby Cats coat
WEIGHT: Around 100Kg
DIMENSIONS: 100X70x50
SPEED: 18mph.
TURNING CIRCLE: Omm
ARMOUR: 7mm Titanium
GROUND CLEARANCE: skirts at sides and front give 0mm, 15 at back
MOVEMENT: 2WD powered by 2 S28-150 Magmotors at 24volts
WEAPONS: Front hinged flipper, powered by two high pressure rams, running at 250psi.
SCRIMECH: flipper.

*sees Tims vapour*

What...the...hell...

LMAO :proud::proud::proud:

EDIT: And nice new vapour, Taco-man. :)

(Message edited by kodster on January 05, 2008)

Even I know that 8 magmotors and 2 eteks would put a robot over the weight limit.

Combined with 36MM of Hardox and 46 of titanium, this is so overweight it comes back round and is actually a featherwight, and yes, I know that doesnt make sense.

What of earths name am I posting it has 10MM of Hardox thats all.

k Timmy, lemme look

Name: Fairground Killride

Weight:100KGS

Dimensions: 23CMX88CMX75CM
Youre saying its only 23 cm long and 75 cm high?
Normally, it is LxWxH.
Shape: Do you know that fairground ride where it spins you around then up then down well that.
No, I dont know that ride, though I can always try and Google it.
Wheels: 2 Small rubber grip wheels powered by 48V Eteks.
2 Wheels powered by Eteks, fine, though its hard to get that power transfered to 2 wheels.
Motors: 8X48V Magmotors and 1 48V Etek.
1 ETEK powering 2 wheels? How do you turn? 8 MAGS? Thatll be bloody heavy.
Speed: 3mph
Kinda slow, and you dont need that.
Turning Circle: Robot:0m Weapon:20m
The robot and the weapon turn indipendent from each other? Makes me curious to what your weapon is.
Armour: 48MM Titanium and 36MM Hardex.
HardOx. And this is 84 mm of Titanium/Hardox, thats way too heavy.
Ground Clearence: With Skirts 0CM all around without skirts 48MM Ground Clearence.
Changing from using CM to using MM is confusing, and 48MM GC is massive.
Weapons: A small Gyro Swing with hooks on the back of the seats. It spins so it twirls upwards hooks up the enemy flings them up then goes back down and goes both ways at 30MPH. In theory it can rip a robots armour clean seeing as it spins at 3222RPM and so uses up the 6 of the 8 magmotors just for the weapon.
Whats a Gyro swing? What happens with the other 2 MAGS? Why is the turning circle of this... thing 20M?
Other: Its based on Maelstrom in Drayton Manor Theme park but even more deadly.
What?

o, and Danny, your vapour is really basic but very well passable, if you enter something like that, some people will say its fine and others would like more details, of course we all can help you when it comes to providing details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouuoQ7VkX5khttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouuoQ7VkX5k watch that that is Maelstrom but just get rid of the people and add big meaty hooks.

ok Timmy, than what exactly is the spinning at 3222RPM part about?

Tim, there are a couple of problems with your vapour:

1) Only you have any idea what its supposed to do or look like. Just describing a fairground ride and hoping the writers have seen it doesnt help.

2) Most. Overweight. Vapour. Ever. An inch of Ti you might be able to get away with, on a really small robot. Closer to two inches? Never. Over an inch of hardox would make it overweight even if it was a superheavyweight. Eteks weigh something like 11 KGs each and while magmotors are generally fairly lightweight, 8 of them is still too heavy. This isnt even taking into account the actuators/hydraulics needed to move the weapon from horizontal to vertical...

3) What magmoters are you even using? I dont think most of them can be run at 48v without blowing. Heck, most of them are over-volted at 36v.

Apart from that its OK:proud:

quote:

2) Most. Overweight. Vapour. Ever.

Frank did you know that that spells MOVE? :proud:

Quote:
Dimensions: 23CMX88CMX75CM
Youre saying its only 23 cm long and 75 cm high?
Normally, it is LxWxH.
-------------------------------------------------

Thats just what I thought when he posted a robot that was 28x88x65 in my competition yesterday. Would you like to revise the stats for Counter please, other-wise, it will be like that when the toruny starts.

Sorry but :rofl: at Timmys bot

This seems to be going quite well, thanks to everyone for participating. Now it€™s my turn to have a look at things. Apologies if I have gone over something that has already been covered.

Disc-O-Inferno vs. Gravity

Tim, I presume you are writing these battles of yours in the forum post box? Myself and many other writers prefer to type fights in a word processor first which also gets rid of and spelling and grammar errors and makes it easier to read. You also didn€™t leave any lines between the introduction/fight/ending. I find this makes it more appealing to the reader. Also, try to make the fights a little longer. That€™s not a bad effort but to get a real feel of the battle then it could be twice as long or more.

Cat With Wheels

Ah, a name Frank would be proud of! :wink: I presume your dimensions are in centimetres, but it does help to clarify. Also which dimensions are they - length/width/height? Same for your ground clearance, 15mm or 15cm? Also, its helpful to state the clearance under the skirts. Otherwise the basis of this robot is pretty good and realistic. However there is a lot more you could put into those stats. I€™ll talk you through a few of them€¦

What are your wheels made of (both hub and tread)? What type of battery are you using (NiMH, NiCad, SLA, Li-Po?)? You could also go into the details of the batteries such as how many cells, what amperage they run at etc€¦ You could also provide the bore and stroke of the rams powering your flippers, and also the amount of gas on board. I presume you are using CO2, which also needs to be stated. But in all honest I don€™t even include half that stuff, so great effort.

Fairground Killride

Right! :proud: As Martijn stated, which dimension is which? Your shape could be described a bit better. Here I would give a link to the video and try to describe it in a bit more detail. I see this as some sort of full body spinner, in which case you might want to go for four wheels rather than two. Eteks are heavy things and not worth the bother if you don€™t want to use them for power. As you have a potent weapon, go for something like S28-400 Magmotors at 24v. Your motors section is just odd€¦ you just said 2x Eteks powered the wheels so what are those further 9 motors for? You€™ll also struggle to get 11 motors in any robot, for size and for weight. Also, which 8 Magmotors are you using?

Your speed is strange, if you want a slow robot go for at very least 8mph. But as this seems to be a spinner, you should want plenty of speed to get in and out of attacks to spin up and hit. I€™d suggest 12mph at the least. Your weapon and robot have two separate turning circles? I don€™t get it€¦

Time for the armour! As you have already devoted a lot to the drive and weapon, your armour will be limited. 48mm Titanium and 36mm Hardox are enough independently, never mind together. Well, by enough I mean way too much as 36mm of Hardox would be pushing for 100kgs alone. I€™m not even sure 4.8mm and 3.6mm would be suitable for a design like this. But go for 5mm Titanium€¦

48mm clearance? Does this vapourbot also serve as a bridge or something? I would suggest 10mm - 20mm if this is a full body spinner, which I am still not sure.

Weapons time€¦ 3222rpm? A whole number would probably be nice, a lower number would also be nice just in case this thing destroys itself. And 6 of your random Magmotors power this thing? What Magmotors for a start? And then tell me why those 6 have been chosen over a single more powerful motor. Also what voltage do these run at? The weapon itself is unique but there have been designs in the past that have had the same purpose of flipping robots upwards and would work better than your concept.

Looking at the video this thing would be very interesting but very hard to produce. It€™s a nice idea but would be full of floors in the design.

AJ dont you mean flaws. OK Ill go for 5mm titanium and Ive decided for the weapon Ill choose 2XS28-150 magmotors at 24Volts. OK Ill also add in 13MM Ground Clearence. The 2 turning circles forget it. OK the robot will go at 12MPH. Well in Dimensions I always go where the same dimensions it says in wikipedia. The robots based on a Gyro Swing Ride. Anyways the whole machine is now powered by 4xC40-300 Magmotors running at 24Volts and the 4 wheels are now whatchamacallit omnidirectional.

Lets see...

5mm titanium
2 x S28-150 powered weapon @ 24v
13mm GC
12mph
Wikipedia dimensions (WTF)
4 C40s for drive @ 24v
and 4 omni-directional wheels

What I say: it needs more improvement.

For one, I would completely change the weapon. It may be original but sadly it doesnt look effective at all, and would probably be WAY overweight. Like AJ said, theres much better ways to toss your opponent than the kind of weapon you displayed. Not that I begrudge you for trying, though. :)

Second, CUT DOWN ON THE MOTORS! Theres way too many motors on there, even for C40-300s! Im glad to see you have looked up the kids of Magmotors for your machine, but those...are big, especially comparing themto the power they put out. :proud: I would suggest researching LEMCO motors and looking them over, as they are very potent, and very light, and with LEMs, you dont need a wimpy 24v, go for 36v :proud:. LEM200 motors are HUGE, though, so Id start off with LEM130s. Research them first though.
Seriously, you dont need more than 2 motors in a HW drive system unless theyre small, or you have a huge-ass rammer. :proud: Also, when thinking of a better weapon, try to research what you need for it, and see it if is reasonable. Figure out a plausible speed for the motors you have put into your machine. :)

Third, ground clearance. Having a 13mm ground clearance all around is still pretty bad, with even skirts in the way, as wedges will be all over you when they get under your skirting. Lower it to at least 5mm, that way opponents might not be able to catch you and flip out if youre running aeway and they get under your skirt.
Also, what armour are your skirts made of? For all we know they could be made of marmite, or toast. Yummy. :proud:

Fourth, weight calculations. Youre not going to go very far if you are not able to explain how everything you put into your machine can safely weigh up to 100kg (well some other people can get away with it but we dont like them :proud:). Find out what each major part of your bot weighs and calculate it up, then add an estimate of the rest of what makes the bot up (wires, speed controllers, nuts and bolts... :proud:), and see if it is near but not over 100kg. If it is, congratulations! :) If not, youre done something wrong. figure out what went wrong and correct it. Practice makes perfect. :)

And lastly, your dimensions. Try to make out what your length, weight, and height are, and not by something elses dimensions. In all honesly I havent a clue what youre talking about with Wikipedia, but it probably wont work. Find a reasonable VALUE and post it. Take the main body of your creation into account and then work it out from there.

Keep in mind that were all tryng to help you Timmy. :)

Am I the only one who knows that Tim is just a troll on this section of the forum to annoy people with over obviously stupid posts?

Who knows, Aaron, who knows... :uhoh:

OK Im changing the robots name to Trick to life.
So its now like this
Name: Trick to life
Weight:100KG
Shape: A low 5mm Titanium wedge with the crusher poking out.
Dimensions:84X66X32
Speed:25MPH
Ground Clearence: 0MM at front due to scoop, 5mm at sides and back.
Turning Circle:0
Armour: 5mm titanium for the body armour and 4mm Titanium for the crusher.
Wheels: N/A hovers across the arena due to air vents pushing down 5000psi worth of pressure down along the ground and wherever the air vents go the robot goes.
Power:2X48V LMC 130
Weapon:The crusher poking out the top.When the robot lands next to the opponent the crusher will pierce the opponent and hook onto the robot until the robot breaks down. The crusher can put down 5000PSI worth of damage.
Srimech: None. If it gets flipped over its game over.
Tactics: Hover across the arena and hook onto unsuspecting prey
Strengths: Unique design, High power crusher
Weaknesses: No srimech, can easily break down.
Notes: Plays the Trick To Life by The Hoosiers.
Knightross Im not a troll for calling me that I will rename you Ogre-Kun. (Kun is a japanese prefix for Boy.) So literally Ogre Boy.

4E6F7720666F722074686F7365206F6620796F752077686F2
0776F726B6564206F757420746861742049276D207573696E
672048657820686572652C20492061637475616C6C7920646
9642033207965617273206F66204A6170616E65736520696E
207363686F6F6C2C206275742061667465722035207965617
27320616E642061206C61636B206F6620696E746572657374
2C204927766520666F72676F7474656E20616C6C206275742
0746865206D6F73742062617369632073656E74656E636520
7374727563747572696E672E2E2E20416E797761792C20492
76D206A7573742074726F6C6C696E672054696D206E6F7720
666F7220746865205B62616E6E65645D20616E64206769676
76C6573206F662069742E2E2E2E

(Message edited by kane on January 29, 2008)

Lemme take another look :proud:

OK Im changing the robots name to Trick to life.
Is it really just a name-change?:uhoh:
So its now like this
Bring it on
Name: Trick to life
Mkay
Weight:100KG
Mkay
Shape: A low 5mm Titanium wedge with the crusher poking out.
I might be nitpicking here, but the way you put it, its a titanium wedge thats only 5 mm long :proud:. The armour doesnt define the shape, no real need to put that there.
Dimensions:84X66X32
CM I presume? The L*W*H part you got right this time.
Speed:25MPH
Thats fast, and I think with a crusher like this, youll want more control to catch your opponent.
Ground Clearence: 0MM at front due to scoop, 5mm at sides and back.
Scoop? Thought you had a low wedge shape? Other than that the numbers look fine.
Turning Circle:0
Mkay... I always include a dimension but thats not really needed here, being zero and all...
Armour: 5mm titanium for the body armour and 4mm Titanium for the crusher.
Fair enough
Wheels: N/A hovers across the arena due to air vents pushing down 5000psi worth of pressure down along the ground and wherever the air vents go the robot goes.
A hoovercraft? Some tournies ban that but in tourneys that dont youre fine entering this. Do you know how the system works?
Also, seeing as your robot relies on its wedge/scoop to get underneath others... this system effectively LIFTS your robot into the air, and therefor your wedge/scoop too, making it hard for you to get under anything.
Power:2X48V LMC 130
2 LEM 130s? cool
Weapon:The crusher poking out the top.When the robot lands next to the opponent the crusher will pierce the opponent and hook onto the robot until the robot breaks down. The crusher can put down 5000PSI worth of damage.
When you land NEXT to your opponent you arent quite in the position to do any crushing... Damage isnt measured in PSI :proud:
Srimech: None. If it gets flipped over its game over.
Thats a downside good and true, especially for a hoovercraft.
Tactics: Hover across the arena and hook onto unsuspecting prey
I dont think any prey you find in a combat-arena will ever be unsuspecting, with a controller in their hands and all...
Strengths: Unique design, High power crusher
Guess thats true
Weaknesses: No srimech, can easily break down.
Why can it easily break down?
Notes: Plays the Trick To Life by The Hoosiers.
WHAT?
Knightross Im not a troll for calling me that I will rename you Ogre-Kun. (Kun is a japanese prefix for Boy.) So literally Ogre Boy.
Yeah, we should all call Aaron Ogre Boy from now on for whatever the reason is :proud: TAKE THAT OGRE BOY!

Really though Timmy, I too have often doubted how serious you take this game, and I remain to do so every now and then.

Im pretty sure hoverbots aint allowed.

Who on earth designs a vapourbot in this day and age without some sort of srimech, unless your biohazard with near impossible skirts to get underneath.

Im sure Ogre Boy will agree :proud:

By the way, Tim, I dont get your design 1 bit - for the exact reason Martijn has just noted down.

And given youre insulting Aaron inJapanense, Ill insult you as well - in GERMAN :proud: Du ist die dick Hunde!
Translate
You are a fat dog.

OK? :proud: Kanes really going to notice this isnt he?

Yep, be good or else he will bring out the locking hammer again.

Paul Im a dog lover thank you. OK Get rid of the hovercraft idea and now its 4 wheels powered by 4 48V Lem 130s. OK so Paul youre Fat Dog Kun. Im Killi-Kun

In my opinion of someone who doesnt know a lot, I would cut down the motors to 2, would save some weight to load some lead or other heavy machine into your wedge to keep it on the ground.

And BTW, good band to name your machine after :wink:

(Message edited by DavidS on January 06, 2008)

Fat Dog-Boy. Its rich coming from you - if we click on your profile, we see a picture of your face :mrgreen:

By the way Kane, we are all joking - we all like Timmy.

It is Du bist ein dicke hund, not Du ist die dick Hunde

Its only 1 mistake :proud:

Aaron: 41682C207365656D7320796F75206172652072696768742C20 54696D20646F65736E277420736565 6D20746F2067697665206120637261702061626F7574207461 6B696E67207468696E677320736572 696F75736C792E2049206469646E2774206D616B6520746865 2074687265616420666F722068696D 20616E797761792C2049206D61646520697420666F72205061 756C2E2E2E2042757420636F6E7369 646572696E672068652773206E6F7420646F696E672061206C 6F74202D2054494D4520464F522053 4F4D452046554E2100

Yes the fennec fox is a dog. Anyway if what you say is correct than Im cute. By the way Kane theyre not joking they really hate me:proud: . Dave I know got their album.

4775797320696d20616c6c20666f7220736869707320616e64 20676967676c657320627574206c65 7473206b656570206974206e6963652e

42