Storm 2 v terrorhurtz

I know it was a year ago now but i have only just seen it-

2006 roaming robots championships-

storm 2 v terrorhurtz

I think it was clear that terrorhurtz was winning the fight,storm 2 did get some good pushes in,but look at the damage terrorhurtz did to that piece of ti (i think) on top of storm 2.And terrorhurtz got a good few hits on the wheels causing sparks and then at the end of the fight terrorhurtz got its axe stuck on the corner of the arena.It was still mobile though you can see it is,you can see the robot moving slightly trying to get un-stuck.But it LOST the fight.I think thats controvesial,terrorhurtz did the damage and should of won.

Have i missed something?

(no offence to storm 2 as they are a very good robot-in fact the same thing happened in the (boring and short) final when turbulence stacked storm 2 on the wall)

Other than that a hell of an event.One of the best.

THZ was immobile, therefore counted out. also the Ti ontop of Storm was sacrificial; therefore none of the damage it took was counted.

To elaborate on what Alan has said - THz, although trying to free itself, did not within 30 seconds therefore was considered immobile.

So the ti on storm was added on.I get it.

What went wrong with THZ then?

Edit:100th post wo-ho!

Interesting on the sacrificial armour. All the armour on Ka-Pow! is sacrificial- does that mean that no external damage counts?

:proud:

I belive that thz would have won with ease but as he was stuck lost, if it went on damage style agro thz would have won but doh happens lol

if you have armour on a bot and it is damaged you will loose as well

The additional armour panel on top is designed as sacrificial armour. It is wholely additional with the original robot underneath in its normal guise, hence why it can be declared sacrificial and why you cannot label your normal armour as sacrificial. (I realise you are joking John W - just making things clear)

Storm II is normally running under weight hence the ability to add this piece.

THz managed some good hits down one side rail by the wheels and was on top of the fight at the start, we were coming back strongly with some good slams across the arena at the time we stuck THz on the wall.

As it happens it was subsequently discovered, I believe, that we had broken one of THzs motors and so would have been able to take more control of the fight even they had not got stuck and may have been able to make it more convincing.

As much as anything it was a tactic of letting THz lose some gas hitting the top before taking more risks in attacking back

Any damage wheather sacrificial or original armour all counts as damage as the judge on the day quite rightly said. just because its added extra to get hit it dosnt mean that damage doesnt count. damage is damge where ever it is.

Thats what Im saying.
Although of course I was kidding around Tim, I was doing it to make a point. Of course you can have sacrificial armour to give you an extra layer of protection against a big hitter like THz, if you have the weight budget to do it, but it doesnt make sense to say that damage taken to it doesnt count just because its additional for that fight and declared sacrificial. Its simply an optional extra layer. We really could run Ka-Pow! with skinny plywood or polycarb armour against other flippers and just add our usual armour (such as it is...) when we fight robots like yours or Kan-Opener and call it sacrificial to avoid the damage counting. Cant see anyone buying that!
Doesnt this go back to Mentorn encouraging the use of easily damaged interesting-looking add-ons that would look good on TV and allowing them to be declared so damage to themd be discounted on judges score sheets?

That is indeed the Mentorn explanation of sacrificial armour. Stuff that gets knocked off the robot or shatters for effect, but not really part the real armour.

An addon like the top plate on Storm is not sacrificial, but like the anti razer cage is an interchangable weapon, more a interchangable armour.

In my opinion, Storm 2 was the better engineered robot in that particular fight, and deserved to win. Although I seem to read that both machines were damage, Storm 2 seemed to take the most damage, as it was moving quite slowly.
And its also making an awful whining noise when it moves.

But the fact that THZ was stck means it lost.

(My opinion)

Anything can happen in a fight and very often does.

Also, are you sure that its actually Storm 2 making that noise? :)

Storm 2 always makes a awful noise......the worlds loudest robot?:)

storm 2 kinda got lucky in this fight (as thz was dominating)

but in series 7 final i think storm 2 were dominating and were un lucky to win

so doesnt always go the way it should

The world is full of terrible judges decisions. Examples are:

Gravedigger vs. Steg-O-Saw-Rus (Robot Wars Series 3)
Gamma Raptor vs. Dr. Inferno Jr. (Battlebots Season 3)
Wedge of Doom vs. Dr. Inferno Jr. (Battlebots Season 5)

Yeah...that sucks, doesnt it? I was especially outraged at the Gamma Raptor fight...that shouldve went his way. He twice nearly upended the Dr. and was way more aggressive. plus he did tons of damage to the skirts.

May I add?

The Morgue vs Firestorm and Suicidal Tendancies vs Wheely Big Cheese.

The seed in both occasions clearly fall into the pit before their opponent can considered immobile so the Judges have to bail them out.

And then both seeds lose the next round. Thats gratitude for you.

Storms not loud and annoying, its Ed

Kody - Gamma raptor lost on strategy the good dr was very well driven, from recalection Gamma Raptor lost also on aggression, because it didnt look in control not like it had in prior fights unpopular decicion maybe right decision? definatly

Theres lost of bad decisions but its down to the judges opinion, ive lost judges decisions that i wanted to lash out about but it doesnt matter at the end of the day so why get wound up about it

I remember the Storm 2 vs. Typhoon battle - I was so shocked I cried! :sad:

The other fight that got my goat was in November 2006 for the Winter Tour finals.
The battle was between Storm 2 and Merlin for 3rd place.
The judge didnt make himself popular when Storm 2 lost the vote, despite being the much more aggresive and also the fact that MERLIN WAS ON FIRE!!!!!:proud:.

Its marvellous what these judges can do when they put their minds to it - nothing:mrgreen::rofl::proud::proud::rofl::mrgreen :

Oi!! :)

BTW it wasnt me that time :wink:

Merlin was on fire? Must have missed that bit :)

The fight is on youtube: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RD-tK_a662g

I think a major thing was that at one point merlin got storm against the wall and fight could have been over.

(Message edited by teammad on October 25, 2007)

Yes David, but you let Storm 2 back down when you went for the OOTA, when you know that Storms shape and height makes it a hard robot to flip. My other query is why wasnt Merlin moving much, and when it did move it was very slow.

We have got it out before, you would have to check with Alan (as he was driving), but the reason we went for the flip out was that we were no longer fight for anything, If the fight had still been in the main comp we prob would have left storm for the count out then put them back into the fight, but in fights like those you take the gamble of flipping out or putting them back in.

Just watch the vid, Merlin seems to be fine, when you compare Merlin (or most robots) to the speed of Storm, they will seem slow.

firestorm vs razer 1 series aswel dont no which 1

was obv firestorm won but they cut it on tv so much they made it look the opposite

I see David, but didnt the judge base the vote on Aggression - can I ask everybody this question, was Storm 2 more aggressive than Merlin? My answer is yes, it was, and I dont see how the judge didnt get that. And Im sure Merlin was having trouble.

If anybody asks why I said that Merlin caught fire, its because I heard someone shout Fire! Fire! and then everyone crowded around Merlin with fire extinqushers.

I agree with perhaps Merlin was running a bit slow but just because they started slow, you cant just give storm 2 the points for damage they didn€™t cause. (I can€™t remember why they were slow though.) Merlin flipped storm 2 9 times I think, and I counted 3 good slams from storm 2 but about the same misses, slamming them selves into the wall, which I believe is minus points. Leaving storm with very few. So in answer to your question, no.

Tom

I noticed more than 3 slams. I counted 11. Plus, even my dad, who was surportting Merlin said Storm 2 should have won (We spent months debeting it), but it does show the stress the judges go through as they have to debat months of arguing in 2-5 minutes.

Back on the Merlin vs. Storm 2 issue, I dont think Im going to win this argument.

So prehaps I could bring up the semi that Merlin lost - against Iron Awe 3:

I was there and I saw the fight. Can I ask, why did one of the best drivers, Alan Young, leave his side open to an attack, even when Iron Awe was vulnerable, you never made a move!

EXPLAIN...

I counted 4 slams. Many slams missed Merlin, others Merlin had got off Storm 2 by the time storm hit the wall.

Merlins flipper wasnt working in the Iron Awe fight (a wire had shorted going into the Electronize switch). I dont have a video of the fight but from memory the fight started with merlin going under Iron Awe - Did nothing. Then Iron Awe went under Merlin, Iron Awe drove Merlin to the arena wall, As he was pushing merlin to the wall Merlin managed to drive one side of the robot off Iron Awes flipper, resulting in iron awe flipping merlin OOTA from the side.

Back on the Merlin vs. Storm 2 issue, I dont think Im going to win this argument.

Don€™t stop on my account, the decision has already been made therefore it is not an argument, just a discussion. I was merely putting my view forward, if you feel strongly about wrong decisions in relation to robots! This is the place to discuss them!

Tom

Sorry to both Tom and David - I didnt relise how cruel I was being. Im sure that the flipper was working though, or at least Rob Grimm says so on his website.

And now we are discussing the Storm 2 vs. Merlin battle, I dont think that flipping Storm 2 was scoring many points on the side of Merlin, as Storm ran away and self-righted, came in on the attack and shoved you to Manchester and back!

And also, you said on that thread in the Competitors section, that yor flipper failed at the Colchester final, when it was clearly working, as you got the first flip in then.

Sorry if Im being too hyper or manic. I just have a vaster knowledge than most people i.e my family :proud:

from what i could see from the 1st min of the video storm wasnt rly self righting they were just getting flipped from the arena flipper

which should take away points? as ur meant to miss that

I fancy joining in the healthy debate as I remember this fight well and was in the discussion with Stu ( the nasty judge ) about the decision.

When there is a controversial decision he always asks me for an independent viewpoint. Although people don€™t see me, im always watching when required!

Ive just watched the fight again, and I stand by my viewpoint at the time, I think Storm 2 should have won.

Merlin appeared to be running very slow from the start compared to normal, while you cant award points for damage, overall it has to be taken into acocunt, maybe it had suffered from a previous fight, I think it had just fought Terrorhurtz so it could be excused.

Storm 2 was a lot more agile, and showed a lot more aggression throughout the whole fight€¦. Does flipping a robot which can both run upside down, and self right, gain you points, I€™m not sure it does, and if it does it can€™t score that many points.

So on pure aggression I would give it to Storm 2.

I remember the conversation about the decision with Stu at the time, as his face was a picture of shock and horror as to who should win€¦., he listened to my point and then I left him to make his mind up, to my surprise he gave it to Merlin!..

I€™ve been a judge before and get out of it while I can, now Stu does it thank god, and if anyone things it€™s a hard job, multiply your thoughts by 100€¦ this year, at some of the 2007 events we have had to go to a recording before getting a decision so the judge can watch again as fights have been that close !!!

My 2 cents !!

John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.ukwww.RoamingRobots.co.uk

OK, to clear a few things up;

Merlin Vs Storm 2

This is one of the best fights we have had, and the result could of easily gone either way. Merlin is always going to seen slow compared to storm (as do most), also in the fight before we suffered a battery failure, so we were running this fight with a very unbalanced setup with 2 packs fairly flat even before the fight, this could of been a factor in its speed. Storm only got a couple of good slams on us, we got numerous flips on him. We nearly had him OOTA twice during the fight, when he was stacked normally we would leave them in a comp but we played it for the crowd and tried for the OOTA, also Storm had gone out in the fight before by being stacked (also lost the UK champs this way), so we thought we would give him a break :) . Storm got flipped by the arena flipper several times as well, this could also go against him. The part when we sat in the middle of the arena was due to the floor, we were unable to move away as the flipper tip jammed under floor panels. The smoke at the end was caused by a loose wire causing high resistance and causing the cable insulation to get hot and smoke, the cable was fine (and is still in the machine), the reason for the over reaction and fire extinguishers was i thought it might be the NiCads due them being unbalanced.

Merlin Vs Iron Awe

We had suffered alot of damage in the previous fight against THZ, and only had a small amount of time to fix it, the arm had been badly bent and would not retract fully after the fist flip, meaning we lost our ground clearance. As for turning sideways on, most drivers will make one mistake during a fight, it all depends on if the other machine takes advantage of it, unlucky for us Iron Awe managed to get a flip on us. It was during the winter tour semi against I.A. that our flipper failed (a tiny wire that supplies the power for the valves had broken).

Most close decisions are always controversial, as it all comes down to opinion on what somebody defines as aggression, style, control and damage.

€˜Does flipping a robot which can both run upside down, and self right, gain you points, I€™m not sure it does,€™

I disagree, if what you say is true Jonno, then slamming a thick hardox robot into the area wall (essentially not doing anything to Merlin) then should points be awarded to storm 2 as Merlin can take the slamming.

I haven€™t explained this very well but im sure you get the picture, if not, call me, yea?

Sweet

Tom

I admit that judging a fight is one of the toughest jobs - its rpobably harder than driving the damn machines.

I also say that I was a bit stunned when Merlin won, as the hostess said that the decision was based on aggrssion, according to Jonno. Then we waited for a bit, until she called out Merlins name. I was stunned.

And I say, when the audience booed, I felt sorry for Mr Stu, as he held his head in his hands. Ive never heard so much booing in all my life - and Ive been to football matches :proud:.

All respect to Mr Stu for his services to RR, but the fact there is only 1 judge sorts of fixs it in a psychological sense of the word.

Ah but tom me old mucka....

does kan opener get points for squashing rippers armour, it does it time after time, and theres not any damage caused, it bounces back into shape....

Robots can only take so much before something eventually come loose... or breaks, we see this with terrorhurtz, even it its hitting a hardox box, you just know its screwing the insides up with the shock !

John

Sorry, since Ive seen Alans message, Id like to say something.

I was actually at Colchester for the Easter Rumble semis, and I might say that you drove brilliantly in the fight, espeacially getting out THZ in the final 3 seconds - I say to my friends and family that it was one of the best pieces of fighting ever!

paul, are you offering your services? :)

john

Well Ive got nothing better to do:lol:
And I could see all the fights!:mrgreen:.

And I thought I would have nothing to do for my birthday.

Jonno, how do you know that flipping storm 2 isn€™t damaging it and screwing the insides up with the shock. Yes Kan-opener gets points for crushing, yes THZ gets points for whacking, yes storm 2 gets points for smacking AND yes, Merlin gets points for flipping. Because something eventually come loose... or breaks.

Isn€™t that cleaver quoting, ive used your evidence against you!

Much love
(Happy) Tom

P.s. Im going out so ill join start the mass-debate up again tomorrow/ join in