Answer me this one FRA

why is it the case that we (roboteers) do not have to be an fra member to go to robots live events yet we have to be a member to go to roaming robots event. if roboteers dont have to be fra members to go to robots live then where do we get my build rules from to go to these events or do we just use the fra rules and guidelines. if i dont have to be an fra member to go to robots live then i dont think i should have to be a member to go to roaming robots. what if roaming robots dont insist on fra membership to join their events then do we have a difference of build rules if the fra dont have a ruling. just occured to me that if there was no fra membership fund then how will this website be paid for? WHAT IS HAPPENING. you guys read this so please do tell me because i want to know. what will happen to the fra? what will happen to build rules? what will happen to this forum? can you please explain to me how all this works???????????

Shane my old fruit.

In the good old days the BBC (well Mentorn ) provided both the build rules and the forum. Since they buggered off and left us in the lurch a group of individuals got together and discussed the problem at hand. What does the future hold for us? Well, it was decided to create the FRA. At the time there were only a few arena operators with varying degrees of arena spec and safety that we all decided that to fund the FRA, forum, administration etc a membership of paying roboteers would be needed. This was obviousy not ideal but lets face it, it was what was needed. And because of this decision our sport / hobby still exists and is still strong.

From the FRA we have arena build specs, robot build rules, International cooperation and competitions as well as this excelent forum. Ed Hoppitt has helped a HUGE amount on the forum. In truth hes the one who enabled it.

Even though I do NOT have a robot any longer I am still a member of the FRA. I actually believe in it and will continue to do so.

Jonno is still keeping with the FRA hence the RoamingRobots requires FRA membership. Others should follow Jonnos excelent example. Not everyone agrees with the FRA or even thinks that it should still exist but its far better than having nothing. The FRA has worked tirelesly for the betterment of our sport / hobby and to do that funds are needed.

The FRA has been very open with how they work. Its books and accounts are available to all as is a representative for anyone to voice opinions / concerns to.

Maybe the question should be When are the Robots Live going to ask people to support the FRA and get their members to be members of the FRA as well and not why should we join the FRA?

Just my opinion.

Mike.

In short, read this....
http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/documents/fightingrobotassociationconstitution.pdfhttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/docu...constitution.p df

Note specifically Para 2.2d

mike my old bean

thanks for that. i do hope that people do the right thing and keep the sport going so this one to the robots live organisers....are you going to support the fra like other event organisers and roboteers have done. sorry but i just dont understand why robots live are not willing to support the fra. come on guys whats the problem. it can only be good for your event??????

ok karoline just pretend i am some dum ass who dosnt understand insurance stuff. i know all about it really but could you just refresh my memory please :) :)

I believe that Robots Live encourage people to be member of the FRA, although you dont need to be a memeber to attend an event. But the tech checks and all other aspects of robot safety will adhere to the FRA rules and guidelines. Correct me if Im wrong

Para 2.2d of the constitution reads:
To this end the association may:-
............
d. Provide professional indemnity insurance for the governing body of the association and its members.

This protects the FRA and its members against compensation sought by someone if you have made mistakes or are found to have been negligent. Professional indemnity insurance will also cover any legal costs.

Sorry forgot to add the quotation marks

(Message edited by anukhet on February 08, 2007)

so if thats the case and robots live do an event and there is a roboteer there who is a non member of the fra and that roboteer gets injured, or causes injury to anyone else in the crowd or pits or robots live staff then what happens? surly robots live must make it ruling to be fra members for their own saftey.

In the light of the FRA rules and guidelines - if you as a roboteer and the event organiser have followed the rules & guidelines then the indemnity insurance will offer protection against a claim being made against you by (say) a member of the audience should something happen to them.

Yep Shane, that just about sums it up :)

you dont need to be a member to attend an event but yet you use the fra rules on tech checks and building. sorry ed but something is a miss here. if we didnt support the fra then there would be no tech check rules or guidelines. or is it because its all set up now you can just use them and not support them. correct me if i am wrong.

I suppose anyone can run a robot event if they want to without being a member of the FRA or insisting that everyone is an FRA member. I see the FRA as a govorning body for the sport of robotting. The rules are there for people to use, you dont have to buy them by being a member. If you organise a football match you dont need to pay the football association to use their rules, i see this as exactly the same.
Yeah, the FRA has and still does good things for the robotting community and I am still a member so I dont see where this discussion thread is supposed to be heading.

Shane. Both me and Ed (same team) support the FRA. We are fully paid up members.

We build to the FRA build rules because they make sense. Good rule book.

I believe Robotslive have there own insurance policy, should someone get injured at an event.

I see no point in this thread? Apart from a pointless pot stirring.

There is much going on behind the scenes at the moment and this is but their first event.

No one is required to be a member of the FRA but without the support of all the Roboteers we simply could not exist. We are the Roboteers.

No one is required to be an FRA member and that is the way it should be... Choice! But working together we will go forward.

Robots Live! have embraced the rules and guidelines and I have no doubt their events will be some of the best yet!

very nice comments lads but does no-one from the robots live event organisers wish to voice their opinion. or are you guys robots live events organiser. its all about supporting the fra. this thread is not pointless pot stirring mr moulds, i have an opinion and i will voice my opinion. you have yours and you have voiced yours but are you accused of pot stirring.

Shane, I believe that this is a topic that you should have gotten in direct contact with both the FRA and robots live event organisers instead of posting on the forum.

I dont remember anyone saying that theyre not supporting the FRA

Shane, you can understand that we are extremely busy at this moment but, in answer to your questions;

€œso if thats the case and robots live do an event and there is a roboteer there who is a non member of the fra and that roboteer gets injured, or causes injury to anyone else in the crowd or pits or robots live staff then what happens? surly robots live must make it ruling to be fra members for their own saftey.€

Robots Live has a £5million events insurance policy for the protection of the public (the FRA€™s PI Insurance is only £1million), whether the roboteer is a member of the FRA makes no difference to our insurance.

€œare you going to support the fra like other event organisers and roboteers have done. sorry but i just dont understand why robots live are not willing to support the fra. come on guys whats the problem. it can only be good for your event??????€

Robots Live! Does support the FRA and has never stated otherwise. The FRA are carrying out a Event Safety check and an inspection of the arena.

€œyou dont need to be a member to attend an event but yet you use the fra rules on tech checks and building. sorry ed but something is a miss here. if we didnt support the fra then there would be no tech check rules or guidelines.€

You don€™t need to be a member of the FRA in order to use any of there guidelines or rules, therefore we don€™t see an issues with your point. If the FRA didn€™t supply the quoted documents then we would supply our own along with our own PI insurance. But by using the FRA€™s it gives roboteers consistency between event organisers.

€œwhat will happen to the fra? what will happen to build rules? what will happen to this forum?€

We are only talking about a few teams who will probably not join, therefore we don€™t see any immediate risk to the FRA.

To clarify our position.

Robots Live currently supports the FRA and follows their guidelines and build rules and has never stated otherwise. The reason we don€™t require all roboteers to be FRA members is simple, choice, why should people be made to join an association that they don€™t support? There are roboteers out there that don€™t support the FRA for one reason or another, why should they be forced to join? In future if you have a question or opinion to voice, maybe you would consider contacting us directing rather than asking on a public forum.

Robots Live!

Robots live are working with the FRA. We have a little local difficulties with Robots Live but we hope they can be overcome with time.

The FRA welcomes a new event organiser to provide competion that enables the the quality of roboteering life to rise.

For this weekends event the FRA will be doing the normal things we do at an event, with Robots Live blessing and complete openess.

Robots live believe that they can do a better job for the roboteers and this approach is welcome.

General statement.

A few people do not understand the FRA and have conspiracy theories as to its motives.
The FRAs motives are as stated on the front pages of this website.

Our aim is to provide a level playing field for all, it is up to others whether they are on the same playing field or not.

The FRA is a union of roboteers and roboteers union.
Resourses that can be called on in the FRA are unrivelled, no single event organiser has the amount of skills that the combined number of roboteer members have, with perhaps the showmanship bit the least of our skills.

Why some event organisers view the roboteers with suspicion never ceases to amaze. No show can exist without the goodwill of the roboteers or to a degree the other way round to.( We now have a choice the event organisers do not)

The FRA has a great equal relationship with some of the event organisers to the betterment our sport/hobby.

Arena and event safety has been our priority this last six months.
A review was needed and has now been actioned as there have been some seriously dubious occurrences.

It is up to the roboteers to ensure that the yet unpublished guidelines are regarded as the minimum standard for robotic combat and that they should demand that all event organisers have the common sense to comply.
All the event organisers present approved the standard which has now also been voted through by the FRA governing body.


The FRA keep being dragged in to event organiser politics which stops the FRA doing the job it is there to do.This is totally unproductive.

For the next six months we are to move on to work that should be done.

i see :)

Applause for the question and the answers. Such things must and should be done in the open, and not by a private Q&A session, so as to stop rumours and to answer questions others might have but wouldnt dare voice.