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What are the rules concerning combustion inside a cylinder to power a weapon such as an axe or flipper. I am thinking building a system that will inject a fuel air mix into a custom pneumatic cylinder and then igniting it to provide a power stroke to fire a weapon. Would this be allowed and if so is there a limit on what I can use as the reactants? Would hydrogen peroxide or nitrogen dioxide be allowed?
i know mario had some fun ideas with using hydrogen peroxide in a combat robot
That all depends on the definition of fun. Id say this fals under de the IC engine rule, so it would mean only a limited supply of feul, and not every venue or event organizer will allow it to run.
I thought about this when building my ram but i then thought what if some reason the piston didnt move, it would be a bomb wouldnt it??
plus the air/fuel mix in a combustion engine is compressed before ignition, usually to 10 or 12 bar, so you will need a motor or co2 to force the ram down to get the compression needed for an efficient burn/expansion. Just injecting and burning will work, but you wont get ic engine sorts of force from it without precompressing the mix.
not saying it wont work, but it is not as easy as it sounds.
The only problem I can see is that there might be occasions where the pressure in the cylinder is very high. As there are no rules saying what the maximum pressure inside an IC engine is it wouldnt be breaking any particular rule but instead may be banned by the event organiser simply for being different or unproven. Anyone from XFM or Roaming robots want to give an opinion on this?
I seem to remember an entry in RW2 or 3 that ran a spike powered in this fashion, they were using something like an agricultural gas gun (crow scarer) to feed gas into an ignition chamber and then fire the spike..
Would hydrogen peroxide or nitrogen dioxide be allowed?
I doubt it. Why not ask the FRA?
PAIN Series 2 .......Oxygen and Petrol mix in ..I believe.. a modified gun used to kill/stun cattle in an Abattoir.
http://www.use-the.net/robots/pain/pain.htmhttp://www.use-the.net/robots/pain/pain.htm
Would hydrogen peroxide or nitrogen dioxide be allowed?
(Joseph)
Why not ask the FRA?
(John)
DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING THERE!!
(The FRA)
i agreed with geoff very dangerous no point
I am simply trying to find out what I can and cannot use so I can do some calculations to see if this is an area worth pursuing. Is hydrogen peroxide banned full stop on only if used to provide the fuel for combustion (ie can you use it with a silver catalyst to provide pressurised gas?). I assume I would be able to use pressurised air to fuel an IC engine, why not oxygen or nitrous? Could the fuel be a gas or does it have to be liquid? Can I use be a single reactant or do I have to mix reactants in situ?
I think using a fuel injector and compressed air to charge a cylinder would be safe enough, it is afterall just an IC engine. Do the rules allow nitrous to be used in IC engines instead of air? I only ask because the current rules dont seem to cover this area and I dont want to build a robot and then not be able to use it.
the current IC rules do have a lot of areas to look into new stuff, but i think new rules would quickly appear if needed, when people begin to build robots along these lines.
as the rules stand, i think most of your plans could be blocked by not allowing pressurized or pumped fuels, which is in the rules at the mo.
which is a shame as i have some evil plans myself that will never see the light of day, but its for the greater good i suppose :)
Derek Foxwell about killed me when I asked I could use High Test Hydrogen peroxide to make high pressure steam to power things in Robot wars.
Now I couldnt say I wasnt warned. I made the idea public on the old forum, and most of the old guard warned me Youre nuts.
Its plainly not safe at all. Its next to impossible to provide a safe working enviroment in the pits when you start to use hydrogen peroxide in concentrations abouve 20-25%.
N2O is another kettle of fish. Its simular to CO2 in pressure-temperature-gas-liquid curve, so, you have to store it in a suitable bottle, having a seperate PRV, and then the other effect of the stuff could get funny side effects; Imagine the PRV popping open when you open that bottle. Youll laugh, but if it goes wrong, youll do stupid things, or aspyxate...
Again, on safety alone I wouldn,t allow it.
James, where does it say you cant have pressurised or pumped fuels? I cant find it anywhere in the rules.
hummmm.... i must be going mad!
i was sure this rule used to be in there?
was it in old FRA rules or robotwars rules?
ah well, good point Joe, which means pressurized fuel tanks are currenly allowed, which is great news to me anyway.
Pressurised fuel tanks are currently not covered by the rules... neither are pressurised fuel lines and pumped fuel, etc.
They will be.
(Message edited by kane on September 27, 2006)