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hi again
I have just bin doing some work on my bot, i was moving the speedos and reciever, and when i tested it it was ok until i switched off and then it went crazy, instead of failsafing.
What to do? Dont know if this would do anything but i have recently put on some steel for armour.
Thanks again
alex
I take it you are using electronize speed controllers?
I have the same problem occasionally with them. The failsafes arent 100% failsafe. They will usually get you through a tech check and into the arena no problem and will work 99 times out of 100 but like I said, they can have problems.
i have another extra failsafe on one of them
No idea if that will help at all as I dont bother with them. If you switch it off and it goes off on one then turn on the Tx again and it will calm down. Then turn it off again. Simple. Not the best solution by a long way but if it works then it works.
How is your ariel mounted? Is your R/X dual or single conversion? Are you running main power cables near your radio gear wires (servo leads)? How close is your r/x to your motors? Improving alot of those factors have helped me keep control over my robots in the past.
Touch wood ive never had a problem with electronize not failsafeing. I would remove the extra failsafe and see what happens then.
ok great
to answer the questions dave, my aerial is mounted with tape on the side, no the radio gear wires near the power cables, the motors are right next to the rx.
thanks
try moving the r/x away from the motors :)
if your robot is standing still, your motors cant produce a interference can they?
if your ariel is taped to your steel body that wont help for start.
failsafes, now this is a good subject. i did send an email to the fra a while back about the problem. The failsafes in speedos like electronize arnt actually failsafes. they cant actually detect interference, all they do is shut off when they dont recive a signal in there pulse band. they dont make a robot safe when they are in there failsafe mode as it cant tell the difference between the txs signal and interference. So if you switch off your tx and the machine recives interference the robot will start to move as it thinks its the transmitter. The guy at electronise also confirmed this.
A proper failsafe would detect the difference between the steady tx signal and the eratic interference signal. thus making it safe to switch your transmitter off.
James, the speedos I got off you for my bot...does this mean I need some extra failsafes in there then, to make it stop dead? Because, it doesnt at the moment. When I turn off the transmitter, it spins in a circle at about half speed, always to the left.
Hi david,
they have the same system that that electronize uses. the viper version has a built in failsafe though. i would recomend adding a failsafe to all speedos although you would pass a tech check without. David the speedos you have should cut out to neutral? try re-callibrating them and make sure your not getting interference. any problems just let me know.
this is the point i would usually jump in saying do not use mtroniks on your featherweight
but the viper series is excellent and is used in one of our robots on its lifter. the msoniks blew up, the viper is fine. (viper 25)
i sell the full range of mtroniks is anyone needs more info
james(c) the mtroniks i got from u r they the viper 1s or somin else?
Hi josh
the ones you have are the originals. They are fantastic speedos and thats why i use them in our challenge kits and my own machine Predator which need to run all day at events reliably.
James saying do not use the mtroniks speedos in featherweights is rediculas, they are proven worldwide as a high quality speedo. You may have had some trouble with them (which nobody has seen), We are so confident with the sonik4 range that if our customers blow one they get another free of charge. simple, we dont sell *
James, did you actually bother to read Mr Bakers post - or did you just jump with the aim of making a prat of yourself ?
James said this is where he would USUALLY join in and say it, but then went on to say the viper series is excellent
So before you post something rediculas - think.
Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com
Ed you never fail to jump on the bandwagon lol. please before you start a rant (again) i would surggest unless you know about the products not to comment, especially with such childish and disconstructive comments like -
or did you just jump with the aim of making a prat of yourself
James is quite clearly saying unless you use the viper series dont use Mtroniks speedos. I am mearly defending a proven product with my honest opinion and wide knowledge and experience of the speed controller.
lets keep topics constructive :)
;o)
the turning left when failsafed sounds like you controler is not failsafing to neutral.
I have had the same problem described by the OP on BS2, from what I could gather there was enough noise getting into the speedos they treated it as a valid signal and ran, the noise from the motors and wiring feedback into the reciver and the thing went nuts until power was cut. In my case I solved it by putting a metal box around the Rx. I would recomend trying this if you have not already done so(this made a world of difference for me). Other than that try repositioning your ariel and check you wiring layout for interference prone areas.
this is where i would usually jump in and list all the blown up mtroniks i have seen, but i wont.
just to point out that i also sell the original controllers (actually I dont, as they are very old, I sell the previous controllers being refered to) and so would stand to gain by saying they are so good. But, as I believe in honesty before profit, I will not tell you they are unblowable, when I know they are blowable, I will not tell you they always fai;safe, when I know they do not always, and I will not offer to replace any and all free of charge, when I cannot even get my own replaced by the manufacturer, well, not before about 6 months ago anyway. The do replace them now, if its a product failure, not when used incorrectly (ie with non standard type rc car (same as 540 drill) motors).
Having said that, Mtroniks are fantastic products generally, as long as you get the right one for the job, I happen to believe anything less than a Viper 25 is asking for trouble, but hey, whay do I know, I only have 40 of the old ones, and 25 of the Viper at the moment.
The problem you may be getting (back on topic) is that these mtroniks have many possible setting modes. One is forward / brake/ reverse. This is where the controller will activly return the motor to stop, rather than let it run down without power. If you have 2 controllers, if one is backward to the other, the brake effect acts on 1 wheel, but not the other, and the opposite way around when reversing. Try failing the robot in reverse, if it turn the other way on failing to when going forward, simply swap the wires on the motor around (either one will do i guess) and the problem is solved, but then what do I know about this product eh?
(Message edited by jamesb on May 11, 2006)
wait a sec, re-read that, the robot spins in a circle at half speed? what, continuously? the above reply was based in it turning left before coming to a failsafed stop, this sounds like something else.
Were you told they failsafe?
It works now. lol. Moved some bits, did some stuff...seems to work 90% of the time now.
thats good dave, just give me a call if you have any problems.
james do the mtroniks have built in failsafes?
all current mtroniks controllers (well, certainly any of he ones you would have bought from JC) are marked as having built in failsafe.
The Viper series has a different type of failsafe, that is apparently far more effective than the non viper controllers, but at the end of the day, if they have or have not, it is only during tech check that you find out if they are suitable. So far, all mtroniks controlers I have seen that were manufactured in the last 2 years have passed tech check, older versions I have seen fail, but then it is unlikely you bought anything from JC over 2 years old.
Remember also, that if there is another transmitter on you frequency, or any background noise around your frequency, they may not failsafe anyway, but that is the same for most controllers.
scrach that, just found a whole range of new controllers that DO NOT failsafe.
id have to know which ones you have
Hi Josh.
you have the marine 25s. these perform exactly the same as the electronize. these speedos dont have a proper failsafe but should pass a tech check no problem. electronize and the mtoniks (not the viper range) both have a system where if they recive no signal from the tx they will shut down the robot. both manufacuers have agreed to me that this isnt a full failsafe as it cant detect the difference between interference and the tx signal. i would advise ALL speedos with a built in failsafe should be accompanied by plug in failsafes aswell. This is something i have brought up to the FRA, what is there thoughts?
i have to say that at aylesbury they wouldnt failsafe soooo...:lame: btw james u got some more of the 1s i got left cz ill have to buy another as the 1 from ian mcdonald doesnt work
ok soz ian talked to him on msn obviously it got damaged in the post
noooooo think i blown 1 of my speedos mornin before comp quote from josh in aylesbury thread.
was that a mtroniks marine 25?
thought they were unblowable?
So if all speedconrollers need additional external failsafes (except the Viper apparently,) where will we get these failsafes from? wonder who on this forum might be offering them for sale?
Quite simply, electronize units with the cpu failsafe, unless there are background noises to interfere. Electronize units without the cpu maintain the last position held if it looses signal, thus not failsafe.
This means that we need to define what failsafe means
1: upon loss of signal the robot ceases all movement and weapon activity.
2: upon loss of signal, or interferance, or weak signal, or any other type of signal condition resulting in any kind of glitch or twitch, or loss of any control even for a split second, the robot ceases all function immidiatly.
number 2 is obviously the desired version, number 1 the realistic one
no mine was a marine 20 that i blew
A Failsafe should be able to detect 3 things -
1- Low tx signal
2- Low Rx power
3- Interferance
Upon detection of any of the above the failsafe should automaticly set the robot to neutral until it no longer detects one of the above faults.
This is similar to what the BMFA (british model flying ascociation) request to thier members. I think it covers everything without leaving loop holes.