To Build or Not To Build - That is the Question!

I€™ve been involved in Robot Combat since forming a teams of 5 people to design and build our first robot to enter it into Series 4 of robot wars. We failed to get onto the show until series 6 when we had evolved the robot to build Armadrillo. The robot was funded by us all contributing £10 per month into the kitty by purchase all the parts. After getting on tv (our perceived goal), we build another and better robot, for series 7. We failed to qualify thanks to a some bad driving and a sweet hit from Thor. After the demise of Robot wars the team went its own we and the Robot is now gathering dust after one fight with only superficial damage.

I then joined up with Henry Ryan (aka Major Tom fame) and we went to Brighton 2004. We were inspired to start building feather weights as we saw this a cheaper and more sustainable way the come to the many live events being staged by Jonno, Ed and others. I started building my feather Zero pretty much straight away with little help from anyone and funding it myself aiming to build a competitive robot with the tightest budget possible. I managed to get a lot of material from work, get my design properly drawn out and professionally welding for nothing.

After taking the finished chassis weapon and drive to brighton 2005, I have progressed very little. This is for 2 reasons.
1. I still need to purchase suitable batteries and a charger. For various reasons I have not had the finances to do so.
2. But what I think is more important. It has taken 2 years to get to this point. With my limited resources I am not keen to take the final step and get the batteries and charger taking the total spend of the Robot to about £500 approx. Having looked around and seeing some of the featherweights being built now with 3 motors powering a Hardox disc I don€™t want to put 2 years of work and £500 into the arena to then not have the resources to repair and maintain the robot past 2 or 3 fights.

I don€™t have the finances to buy Ti or Hardox that would give me adequate protection to sustain a lot of damage. I do not see that my robot would be strong enough and competitive. Having built a feather with a drum weapon it feels hypocritical to want to do damage but not receive any.

I still have a great passion for Robot Building and combat and love the social side of the live events and before that Robot Wars.
Is it worth me carrying on and finishing Zero? I€™m not sure at this point.

Sorry for the long post. I needed to get this off my chest and maybe get some views from people in the community.

Thanks Glen

You dont have to fight the humongous spinners.
Thats why RR, our main event organizer, has the white board fights.

Now, on resources and material. Hardox for example is quite cheap compared to Ti or even polycarbonate. And for batteries/charger Its all in what you want to build and achive.

I spend more than £2000 last year on robot wars, and I have only an ant, not even build by myself. But am getting a complete workshop. What gives me the opportunity to build better parts.

And this is another way of doing RW. Dont start a team, but search for a team what can use you to build better machines without adding loads of cash.

I myself just go to events and offer my expertise on certain technologies.

Hardox is about the cheapest armour you can get (unless you have a sponsor). It does weigh a fair bit though.

Dont give up now either. Aim for an event a few months down the road and keep on building to compete in that event.

I bought my featherweights batteries off ebay. 2 6v 3300mAh packs and 2 chargers cost £40 (I bought 6 packs so the total cost came to around £80).

i cant offer any advice as i dont see my self as qualified, however if you around for a few events robot or no robot im sure a few white board battles would see you willing to throw anything in the arena, the guys on the circuit are some of the best guys ull find, with a few contacts as well ull have a better i dea where to go for cheap parts and what does an doesnt work

May I add my tuppence?

When I was back in Comprehensive(or High)school, The Morgue was being built in the back of my technology classroom. I was in awe of it and promptly went about finding about how I could help. That lead to me to the S4 crowd and gave me a chance to look around. Naturally I gave a good eye to the pits and dreamed of being there.

Time went on, the MORGs came and went. It was only during TG 2003 (Football/Sumo) did I ever get a chance to be in the pits area. Once again I was inspired. From that point on I was determined to make a competitive machine.

Then Robot Wars fell. The robot fell into retirement and there were no-one going to events from Swansea, but I continued to gather parts.

With no mechanical expertise of my own it was a steep learning curve and my build was (and still is)a slow one. My definition of a competitive machine dropped from seed ratings to one that turned up to an event.

Here I am, still building and 100 miles to go before I even start my journey to an event. Im determined to get to one, no matter what and I dont care what Geoff does to my machine when I do get there, because it will have been worth it.

If you want my advice, dont fret about your machine not being seeding spec machine and go. Just chuck anything together that will fit in the weight limit and enjoy yourself. Its exactly what I intend on doing.

Ps. Gary, what exactly did you put into Ebay search to end up with those batteries???

I have had doubts about building a robot a getting it mauled to pieces but i have since over come them . My sponsor helped me build my robot piece by piece and with that i feel i have confidence that my robot can stand up to the damage inflicted from other robots .
I also had no technical expertise up until recently . I think if you spend your money on the robot to make it go eg speedo batts etc and harldy put anywork into the chassi of the robot you are bound to fail . In most case its not what you use its how you use it.

99% of the time, sustained damage looks a lot worse then it really is. As long as you have a good frame, and your electronics tucked away, preferably shockmounted, the odds of your robot being damaged beyond repair are minimal.

I should know, thanks to Kan-opener and THz ive been in that situation twice, and my total damages never amounted to more then 50 pounds worth of steel and aluminium. And my robots where a mess after the fights. But nothing a little elbowgrease cant handle.

Ok. Thanks for your comments so far.

Gary - When you say Hardox is Cheaper and heavier what are the differences? My chassis is built from 2mm 15mm x 15mm stainless steal box section with 3mm Ali in between (see profile pic). Also what will i need for batteries and a charger? Ive got 2 x 12v drill motors for the drive and 1 12v drill motor for the weapon.

Ive had the drive working using a small batt from the old heavy and it works fine using 2 x 15a electronize and mixer.

Somehow during the build i have gone over weight and it currently weighs 12.6kg with out batteries. I am going to change my wheels with blue ones from james baker(if i remember rightly) when i get the chance. This should save 0.5 kg

Alistair - i designed the robot myself and just had it drawn to scale at work so that i knew exactly the lengths i needed to cut to get the chassis welded. Having no welding skills myself i assisted a friend at work to weld the chassis. Ever other part of the robot has been done due myself.

Ceri, email sent about batts.

Do not underestimate the power of this forum and live events when it comes to finding cheap parts or interesting sales. You may also find people willing to help you out.

An example (If I may...):
Our living room is getting a reputation in Belgium/the Netherlands. We simply invite roboteers to come and use our tools/machines that have set up shop in what used to be the living room of the house. The roboteers usually stay for the weekend and we have lots of fun. Mario is good at finding affordable materials and we have some reasonable suppliers in the neighbourhood (one paintball-shop recently opened just 3 streets from here :mrgreen: and they have the right kind of bottles ! That alone saves us a 3-hour trip to our old supplier).

Whether to stay in the game and risk getting your robot damaged beyond repair or finances, it is still your decision. But please understand that there are many many more people in the same situation as you. The reason why people have not seen us on live events the past year is because we simply didnt have the money to come over. Or even a working robot... Many roboteers are scraping together what they can, most of them are students, notoriously short on money anyway. And just like safety comes in numbers you could be lucky to team up with other people and pool your resources.

What it comes down to is this: do you go for the fun, the challenge and the exitement, or do you go for the competition, or do you see it purely in financial matters ? Can you afford it now or should you wait until your situation has improved instead of quitting altogether ?

The main thing about hardox is that it comes only in sheets. But its about the same price as normal stainless. But has twice the strength and can be worked with common tools like an anglegrinder and an arc welder.

So, for the money/strength its the best buy. But it takes a lot of creativity to work with the weight. Its still the weight of steel.

Now, the machine in the picture looks good. Would be a pity not to use it.

Hi Glen,

To see how cheaply it can be done I built a simple robot last spring out of 2 9.6 volt drills (Argos, christmas special, £10 each) and used the drill batteries and rechargers. Total cost was about £75, not including radio gear. Armour was 28 mm wood, held in place by 6 mm roofing bolts. I did fights with spinners at the Cambridge event (including Dragonstrike and Vortex) and at the end of the 2 day event it was still working. Hardwood makes great armour.
It is possible to make a robot that can stand up to competition for relatively modest amounts of money.

Hi,

I second everything people have said.
You dont need to spend a lot of money to have a LOT of fun.

Best thing to do is get yourself to a current live event, and have a look for yourself.

JOhn
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.ukwww.RoamingRobots.co.uk

True, I entered into this by chance and with a bit of luck, with no money and even less technical knowledge - in fact after 2 years I still dont have much technical knowledge and as for money - now look where I am (even I dont know how)........LOL
I found my way in this by using other skills, being full of ideas, asking lots of questions, asking for lots of help and getting it wrong too (but Im not afraid to admit to that) - even now some of my ideas defy the laws of physics.
I know that I will never be able to afford to build my own robot and even if I could I wouldnt know where to start anyway :crazy:. I just got myself involved. Perhaps offering yourself up as team slave should someone need help for an event because HWs aint the kind of thing that can be lugged around by one person.
Like Jonno said, it is fun - come to an event and see :)

Hi John, i have done exactly the same. I spent £32 on 2 12v drill and still have the batteries ands chargers in the shed. The drill motor for the weapon was from an old drill where the speedo was broken.

Outside of Robot Wars i have been to Brighton twice and folkestone a couple of years ago. Folkestone was a great weekend with the highlight getting Major Tom into the final facing Thz.

It is certainly something that i would like to do again.

if you are worried about your nice robot getting duffed, build an old scrap one too.. Ive built nothing but utter rubbish for years, and always made it to the next round.. dont worry about spinners,, theres lots of talk, but geoffs scorpion got stopped by a stuffed pig..and my Killercarrot has been up against fluffy, disco inferno, scorpion and that exterminator2 disc, and its taken some knocks, but always driven away from it.. the only bits that get bent are the cheap bits, steel chassis bits, and panels.

Having seen your nasty spinny rolling pin I think people should be more worried about what you are going to do to them.

I agree with most if not all of the people€™s comments on this thread already and have been through the same situation. Take a look at my profile when I built the first Conundrum because it was only MDF, Thin scrap ali, gold motor drum drive and some cheep drill motors drive built on my back garden using a work mate, drill and saw. I thought it would be trashed against any spinner but the actual damage received has been only cosmetic against the likes of Vortex and others. I guess the main damage it has taken in its lifetime was when it landed on one of the drum supports after coming off the arena flipper. Nevertheless, it has generally always continued to run right until the end of a battle.

Chris - ^_^

Gentlemen, If I may add my two pennies here as the owner of a reasonably efficient feather spinner.
Glen, Im pleased to see your enthusiasm and interest remains strong after all this time, I have seen your machine and believe me you have a potentially very good robot there.
There is a lot of very good advice been posted above especially with regard to armour and batteries.
To try to allay some of your fears with regard to the damage from machines like ours, contrary to what you may believe we are not in the business of cutting apart any new machine that we come across just because we can. That is no fun for anyone.
There are 2 or 3 new teams that are starting to come to events with machines that are (with no disrespect whatsoever to those machines and their builders) not as well armoured as yours.
We have fought all of them in whiteboards and not once have we done anything but light cosmetic damage to any of them. When you drive a machine like Evilution in a whiteboard you have the responsibility to keep it under control and not to do gratuitous damage, for example we run our weapon at 1/2 speed during all whiteboards, will avoid any machine completely if asked in advance and will always stop an attack immediately if the other team says they have had enough.
So dont worry Glen, you wont get your machine trashed by us in any whiteboard.

(Enter it into a competition fight however.... We will treat it exactly the same as any other machine... As long as it still moves, it is a threat to our machine, and considered a valid target that will be dealt with until it is no longer a threat, or it surrenders! :wink:)

I see from your profile that you are in Kent, there is an event in Colechester on 15th & 16th April.. Do try to get there if you can, you will be more than welcome.

Geoff.

Glen, depending on what your robot is made out of/what its weapon has, you could fight it in the new cadet class category thats been mentioned (dunno if thats running yet as I havent been to any events). That way your bot is likely to last longer hence youd get a better return for your money so to speak :)

Jamie

Fingers crossed for the cadet class as it has loads of potential for less destructive and more creative machines. Go for it Glen, if I can do it, chances are you can do it better :wink:

Thanks for all your comments. Its been good to hear your thoughts.

After reading through i dont think im quite ready to give up yet! :)
Thanks for your comment Geoff about the white board events. If that is the attitude of most teams then i dont think ive got too much to worry about.
Geoff - (Enter it into a competition fight however.... We will treat it exactly the same as any other machine... As long as it still moves, it is a threat to our machine, and considered a valid target that will be dealt with until it is no longer a threat, or it surrenders!). I wouldnt expect anything different from a competition fight and would try to give as good as i got! Am thinking about the UK Champs in August if i can get to some events beforehand.

Thanks all. Hopefully Zero should be at an event by the summer.

I think that my feather DB5 has suffered most at the hands of Evilution, with one scrapped chassis and one bent one. But John was kind enough to help hammer it back into shape, Glen most roboteers will try as much as possible to help fix any damage they cause past the cosmetic.

The spinner guys like geoff, ed and the big nipper boys are great guys though. If you get drawn against them, they dont make you feel presurized into haveing to fight their nasty spinners, they understand the work involved in building these machines. Its easy to say no thanks and you dont feel as though you have to swollow your pride either. Ive had to do this before with Venom as 2 years of work and over £1k isnt worth the giant risk sometimes, especially when i need the machine for work lol. thats why i am makeing my new machine so i can enjoy the competitive side of robot combat again.

Well, all that geeing up has got me going. :)

Just started to cut and shut the robot to reduce the weight. As i said in an earlier post, somehow, the robot weighs 12.6kg WITHOUT batteries. Doh! Bit strange as i weighed everthing as i went along. Ive worked out if i change the wheels (-500g), drill the holes out bigger on the chassis (-250g) and do some other bits and bobs i should be able to get under weight.

Hoping to sort the batteries from my drills for next week then i can finish the wiring quite soon.

Feel like ive got a second wind!!:rofl:

I have always fancied building a robot if only the series had started now rather then ended i may have got there. i am currently working on a smallish robot and cheap too its very simple just 2 motors, 2 servos the reciever and aas i was thinking of building the chasis/armour out of circuit board as this is fairly light but strong. my design a pivitable wedge (so it can swing when the robot is inverted)made out of steel food cans. Its barely started but i am sure it will prevail althiough with my a levels underway and university to follow it may be quite a bit of time before i complete it.

Good luck with the machine, keep us posted on you progress if you can.

Just a little pointer though that circuit board material isnt the kind of material most suited to weight classes beyond antweights/super-antweights. Though there are many PCB materials around, they are very much suited to electronic circuitry as opposed to structural support.

alex, if you are aiming to go larger than an antweight then I would recommend something a bit meatier than PCB material like Ewan says. If you are on a budget then you can use wood or steel. Nice and cheap and strong enough for a bigger bot.

well as i have said it is only a small robot so far maybe a kilo at most as i have none of the tools such as welders/grinders etc appart from a macano set!!! so i dont think i am going to go larger then that.

just noticed a post from glen above

am going to change my wheels with blue ones from james baker(if i remember rightly) when i get the chance

not me, james cooper by the sounds of it. i dont do wheels.

Yeah it is James Cooper. I looked back on my emails the day after.

I wasnt sure i got it right when i wrote it, hence the (if i remember rightly) .:)
Got the first right at least lol.