The dangers of Hardox

Hi all,

I have recently been working with sheets of 4mm hardox 400 and presumed the fumes given of during welding and grinding were about as dangerous as normal mild steel.

But recently I found out the hard way that it can be dangerous to humans, Ive had burns up my arms witch I presumed were from the light given of by the welder but then went rather dazed after welding which I couldn€™t explain. Also I€™ve heard of cases were Peoples skin dries out and they get a fever.

Just thought I should post something to tell people that this wanted material is dangerous to work with, and that you should take as many precautions as possible when working with it (common sense I know but it sometimes gets forgotten) Is there a dangerous chemical in Hardox that we should be aware of? I hope this stops someone becoming ill.

Dave

Not to my knowledge.Hardox is a low alloyed kind of steel getting most of the strength by mechanical means. Not chemical compounds or especialy toxic metals.
Maybe the coating on the hardox?

Did you also welded any zinc coated steel? As zinc fumes are known to cause flu like symptomes.

My college at work gets the same sympomes. Skin rash, easely burned, even fever just by welding with a part of his skin exposed. me on the other side, I do most of the small welding whout gloves. Only ali makes me cringe and grab every protection you can imagine.

No zinc plating. Brand new plain box section

I dont have sensitive skin, I also very rarely use gloves and arm protection and I havnt been damaged by normall mig welding of mild steels before. This will mean sandblasting the coating of before use I suppose.

Has anyone else had these problems when welding hardox?...

Well i have had some interesting smells and runny noses from grinding hardox.

I am sure it is the coating on the surface that gives it its side affects.

I have cut and welded huge amounts of this material with no ill effects to me. That doesnt mean to say that others wont be affected. All hot metal work carries risks and the correct type of clothing and protection should always be used. There is no one responsible for your safety except yourself. Be warned !


Mike

http://healthychristianliving.com/more%20on%20uv.htmhttp://healthychristianliving.com/more%20on%20uv.htm

Take a look at that.

Mike

I know that you would never lead anyone astray but I hope that advice is serious and correct because their advice on other health issues borders on the ludicrous and is heavily into advertising its own health products and beliefs - it is an American christian fundamentalist website after all.

Mike, the main difference between You, Gary, Dave and me is age. It seems the more mature persons get less trouble.
Karoline, could you help me welding hardox?

Karoline, I do think that you missed the point of the link. I referenced that site because it showed a link to Ultra Violet radiation and the symptoms that others have been having. Obviously people who weld should wear substantial protective clothing when welding. Gauntlets and thick over garments as well as a full head helmet that protects the throat and neck should be worn. Ultra Violet rays pass through many types of cloths so protective clothing has to be chosen carefully.

With reference to that site. Maybe I should look a little better at what the site is before I link it. But it also shows that there are also benefits to UV rays as well.

Mike.

Prolonged exposure to UV produced by welding can
cause premature ageing of the Iris /Cornea of the eye,not only from direct arc impact but also reflected impact, this effect/danger, diminishes with distance from the arc,

So the welding gives of UV rays dangerous to humans, witch I knew, But how come people are having effects when only welding Hardox and not other materials? I have safely welded Mild steel, Stainless steel and Aluminium before without causing physical damage to myself.

Does anybody know what the chemicals used to protect the surface of Hardox are? I can only presume its the surface treatment of the material as apart from that isn€™t Hardox just another form of mild steel but made slightly denser due to the pressure applied when making it?

The alloying elements have a lot to do with the mechanical strength.You cant get normal mild steel as strong just by applying the same treatment. Its all in the grain and crystaline structure.

The surface coating. Looking at the color I gues its a modern leadfree variation on the good old anti rust paint. Whats exactly in that paint, no idea. But its never a good idea to breath fumes of burning paint.

Mario, to be honest Ive never welded anything in me life and would only probably do it if I were wearing the equivalent of a full asbestos bodysuit with absolutely no way of seeing out OR I would do as I usually do......dont go within a mile of it :)
But as far as welding hardox (or anything for that matter) is concerned....
The effect the fumes from the coating and the hardox itself will vary from person to person irrespective of whether they are protecting themselves or not. What do you do when you finish welding? You take the protection away to admire your handywork of course thus exposing yourself to any residual fumes. This can only have a detrimental affect on skin, lungs etc.

....and as far as the aging properties of UV light, the reason why Mike doesnt suffer any ill effects is that its too damn late for him :proud:

Karoline, Im to young to escape the dangers of the aging effect..

Well, when welding hardox or any material for that matter, whether it says on the website or not, its a well known fact that goos ventilation is needed, espeshiaclly in surface hardened materials such as hardox. I have nitrite coated mild steel, and welding that gives similar effects, such as head aches. But, as for burning, a full set of overalls should be worn. I know you wore your T-shirt Dave lol, which, with the high setting of the welder that you were running on will cause burns much easier.
Thats the highest setting you have run the welder at before, and that is why the burns are worse than ever before. I set the welder, and i turned it up from what i used last and got minor tanning on my arms, so thats that problem.

.....and having never been near anything like a mig/tig/arc/oxy welder is the reason why Im still so young looking and beautiful :)
Seriously, the effects of UV radiation on the skin are well known but not so well known are the effects of heat and chemicals. Also what many people forget is that they can get indirect exposure to UV and IR wavelengths from reflective surfaces (and that includes light coloured as well as shiny surfaces).

I forgot to mention this - http://www.wisegeek.com/is-welding-dangerous.htmhttp://www.wisegeek.com/is-welding-dangerous.htm

Going completely out on a limb there could be another problem with being dazed or disorientated afterwards. A slight inner ear infection even if you cant feel an earache as such can cause some dizziness if you have had your eyes focussed on something for a while.

The only really dangerous material I ever worked with was thinner during Art Class at high school. Our teacher would scurry around opening as many windows as he could and we would try to close them again behind his back because we just loved those fumes.
The same stuff was used at my dads job (printing press) to clean all surfaces with. 3 young lads had to clean a certain workroom, forgot to use proper ventilation (hadnt listened to those old geezers), and then drove home in one car. A few hours later the police found that car neatly wrapped around a tree a few kilometers away from their work. It seems they had gone straight from high to nirvana without even noticing the transition.

Morale of this little story: Everything you use can be dangerous. Use your head, not your nose.

UV produced by welding can
cause premature ageing of the Iris /Cornea of the eye is that why Mike is such a bad driver? bald and blind? spot on

Oi!!!

It also seems to have an effect on memory and cognitive processes. Have you seen the delay of his answer ?

....and it was very very grumpy.
If someone asks him now what hes complaining about and youll either find that hes written everything down in minute detail or hes completely forgotten.

Thats why u should always weld with a hangover. That way you cant get a headache from welding.

I like that kind of Logic

Posting on Behalf of:

Anders Blomqvist


Hi,


What you have experienced has little to do with the HARDOX plate itself nor the primer coating. To protect the plate from corrosion during storage and transportation we paint the plate with a anti corrosion primer. The primer that we use belongs to the group low zinc silicate primers, referred to as the third generation of ZnSi-primer.

When this primer was introduced (by the primer suppliers HEMPEL and JOTUN) a lot of attention was taken to minimize any hazardous risk involved with the primer.

Today the low zinc silicate primers that we use has been accepted by various health research institutes under the condition that welding/cutting is performed in normally ventilated premises.

Attached you will find a TechSupport pdf file about work shop handling of primer coated HARDOX and WELDOX plates, also available on our home page http://www.ssabox.com/news/brochures/en_index.htmhttp://www.ssabox.com/news/brochures/en_index.htm . I have also included the Material-Safety-Data-Sheet, where you can check out §2.

625_techsupport_25_plate_primer_hardox_and_weldox_ uk_v1_2004_ssabox.pdf material_safety_data_sheet.pdf

Since I do not have the access to post this information on the site the, I would appreciate if you could do it€¦..and change the headline to No danger using HARDOX.

Best regards

Anders Blomqvist
HARDOX Development
Manager Product Development HARDOX
SSAB Oxelsund, SE-61380 Oxelsund, Sweden
Tel-+46 (0)155 255180
Fax +46 (0)155 25 55 40
e-mail:anders.blomqvist@ssabox.com




If Anyone wants a copy of the PDF I can send you a copy, just e-mail dave66698@hotmail.com