Why are these banned? i know the flame is hard to see when ignited but it doesnt let off vapour so its hard to set alight.
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Why are these banned? i know the flame is hard to see when ignited but it doesnt let off vapour so its hard to set alight.
my understanding was Derek Foxwell had a personal crusade about these engines, but as they are run all the time at indoor radio controlled car events, I think the FRA should be more ameanable to a possible rule change.
Ill propose it if you dont want to.
anyone else know why there may be arguements against it?
As I Understand it, this type of engine is covered under FRA rule(s) 7.0 to 7.8 inc.
and as such may well be allowed.(subject to the event organisers approval)
But to be certain e-mail Sam Jones, He will give you a final ruling.
Sam could you please post somthing here that may shed some light?
oh dear,
you know hed going to post a torch now dont you?
Nitro engines are not banned in the FRA rules.
Theyll be required to conform to the same standards as any IC engine as discussed in rules 7 to 7.8.
What gave you the idea they werent allowed James?
Regards
Samuel Jones
FRA Safety Executive
My Fault probably.
James mentioned it to me once and i said they were banned... a RW thing.
asked again recently, I said the same, I should have read the rules properly first I guess.
good news for the other James though.
Im not sure, i thought i read it somewhere? no hang on! not nameing any names.........
James Baker
:sad:
LOL
glad to sort it out
I hope that they arnt banned! they are an ideal power source for feathers. The only real problem with them is running them at some events due to smoke detectors etc.
I have a few 15cc high power glow plug motors that I would love to gear down and power a spinner.
Mike.
gear down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im surprised at you Mike
:)
Gearing down is for wimps!!!
Gimme one to one direct drive every time!! :proud:
I thought I was the 1:1 guy :)
just to clarify it, nitro engines are 20,000 to 25,000 rpm in standard trim
1:1 gearing? I was joking!
Well... how does a 18,000rpm weapon sound :) (only electric :sad:)
It sounds high-pitched
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
E!E!E!E!EE!E!EE!E!EE!E!EE!EE!E!EE!******
bang!
U heard that Doms made a flamethrower?... Boy would I like to see that in with a nitro spinner :)
got plans for a flame throwing robot myself
Sorry guys,
Flame throwers are banned!!
FRA rules 12.7 to 12.7.3.3. applies
(And I dont need to check that one with Sam!!)
James, nitro powered spinners 20-25,000RPM 1:1 on a relitivly large dia. strong very lightweight disc...More than possable.. Totally devastating, they behave more like a circular saw than a KE weapon. But depending on engine can have a reletivly slow spin up time, and need some form of clutch to prevent motor stalling on impact, already done the maths and basic designs for one a while back!
The deceleration of a large fia disc from 20krpm to 0 during an impact is mind boggling. Something wull break, preferably the opponent :-)
Its spin up times that are the important thing with feathers now. Feather anenas arnt pearticularly big, and it takes a very short time for your opponenet to be on you. Im tempted to try and design something to kick start the disc up to about 1krpm in a second or so. Any thoughts on such a design? I machined some suitable clutches today at work for a client, and they got me thinking about some kind of air or spring powered device to give the disc an initial power burst right on the activate, and then disengage and let the motor do the rest. Am I being silly? Thoughts?
Eddy :-)
Eddy, lets put it this way..A nitro spinner is a wonderfull dream! As I said I did the maths on one back when Scorpion Jr. was on the drawing board and I concluded that one of two things would happen, one, it would take too long to get up to a useable speed (2kg disc, 250mm dia, 15cc motor via a centrifugal clutch would take around 9 seconds to reach full speed) or two, If you did get it there the KE would be in the order of 43Kj!!! and something WILL come apart!(More than likely a catastrophic failing of your machine. 43Kj is somewhere around twice the energy that our lynch powered heavyweight spinner produces!)
At that point, I went right off the idea!!
You might do better in using one to run a cutting / saw blade rather than a KE weapon.
Far less mass, quicker spin up time and no problems with impact shock.
Just some thoughts, I think anyone trying one of these needs to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL!!!
Is it the speed thats the dangerous part???
Its a combination of the very high speed and the extreme KE in any rotating mass! Unless you seriously know what you are doing I would leave well alone!
EDIT: see below
Ewan, The stored energy of a flywheel is determined by the equation:1/2Iw2Where:[*]1/2I is half the moment of inertia of the flywheel,[/list]and[*]w2 represents the angualar velocity (radians/sec, which is just another unit of speed of rotation (i.e. rpm) ) squared.[/list]So you can see that the speed has a far greater bearing on the energy of the disc- doubling the speed will yeild 4 times the stored energy, triple the speed yields 9 times the stored energy et cetera. So in otherwords, yes it is the speed that is the dangerous part!
Well the 15,000rpm in my disc (22,000rpm with the 18v battery) in theory is dangerous :)
No Ewan, not in theory dangerous...in fact dangerous.
(thats what smilies are for...)
*Jaw drops slightly*
Hope to hell thats an ant.
:)
15cc???? bloomin ech Geoff? i was looking at a 3.5 nitro engine, it produces well over a horsepower at 28,000rpm.
again, was joking about gearing down, you would have to or youd smoke your clutch, experience of alloy wheels talking there, spinning heavy disks wont work too well unless you gear it down at least initially..
Would very much like to see Mike show up with one of these as Ive heard hes plenty of experience with them is his bellychoppers.
Sorry James, my error 15cc..what am I talking about! I think that should have read 1.5!
Bloody noisy in an enclosed arena though!
Go for it, Id love to see a spinner with one of these powering it up and running (and were in the middle of building just the arena to put it in :)).
Played with the idea a lot myself.. got a nice little motor set to one side should we ever get round to it as well :)
Sam
Go with the nitro Geoff!!!! Give that Hoppit fella a taste of his own medicine :)
We are working on a High Power nitrous oxide system add on for our chainsaw motor :) I doubt we will be allowed to have the nitrous though :sad: Derek wouldnt let me for RW even though I only need a very very small tank. To dangerous he said. SO is our Disk I said (kill joy)
You guys should know by now that I like my toys! We will still go out in the first round though LOL ROFL
LOL, I cant wait to see some of these nitro powered feathers on the go....
They sound great fun but with all engines if your buying them from new they take alot of time running them in so that they dont stall every 2 seconds. On my brothers nitro car it took atleast an hr-2hrs before it was running withought stalling, and in a robot that will seem like forever.
Grant