Using gold motors

hello,

i have been using 12v drills at 24v on 95mm wheels in my current thwackbot featherweight and am really not pleased with the performance (and the reliabilty of drills in general).

so im looking at stepping up to gold motors and was wondering what advice people could offer in regards to their use? (what is the best way to attach pulleys to them etc).

could anyone also comment on their performance in comparison to say drill motors? and would would it be possible to gear them to about 20mph top speed?

btw - im looking at using the 12v version at 24v with approximately 95mm wheels.

any help appreciated,
Regards Glen

Wooo,
First problem you had was probably running 12v drills on 24v....that€™s why they were unreliable. Don€™t make the same mistake with your gold€™s. The most you would want to over volt a 12v gold to is 14.4v. As ploughbot runs his 12v motor on 24v in his lifter and after about 4 lifts its red hot. If you must use 24v go for the 24v version of the gold motor....However remember you may need some serious size battery€™s as these motors are known as being un-reliable, good luck:)!

Regards
Dave moulds
Team Turbine/PLF

ive used golds for just under a year, i have done very well. I have burnt two sets out, this is due to me thrashing them (if there not running full speed then there stalled!) You can get 20mph out of them, but will increase acceleration time. I run 24vs at 24volts, with 15amp CPU electronize controllers with 24v 3Ah NiCads.

The motors are well built, and are very powerful. The only problem is with heat, as the are totaly sealed, they get hot very quickly. Im drilling air holes in the next pair (Unless i move onto bigger motors).

Would 5:1 gear reduction on golds be any good?

Also does anyone know what gear reduction Paul Cooper Uses on Tkm2?

Regards
Ian Mc Donald

i think he mentioned a 4:1 ratio and it doing about 20mph, cant be certain though

Does any one know what gears would be best?

I have thought about Mod 1s but they seem to have a 6mm bore for the 8mm shaft of a gold. Any Surgestions?

Regards
Ian Mc

Kittys used the Gold motors since - hmm well Gold motors came out - Kitty was the first to use em, and has not burnt a set out, damaged a set or anything.
24v gold Motors running on 14.4v - decent speed with 8:1 reduction and 150mm diamter wheels. 2 Stage reduction is the key to why things work decently. They dont event get warm on 14.4v and with decent bearings, higher voltages welcome :)
Oh we have holes drilling in Kittys gold motors, not to keep em cool (but it must be helping) but to lose weight, hehe we lost about 300g from drilling holes in them.

Mod 1 seem a decent gear size to use. have a 6mm bore? for a 8mm shaft of the gold - hmmm drill it out bigger?

Mr Stu

MOD1 is enormous for feathers. Heavies use MOD1! MOD 0.5 or 0.7(for dedicated push bots) are fine. MOD1 will just use up unecessary space and weight.

i use mod1s in alpha, not due to the power, but it means they can wiggle more, hence less accuracy needed, good job with me! I have machined abit off the gears but not much as weight isnt much of a problem :proud:

I think I have to go along with eddy on this one, MOD1 is a shade OTT on a feather, we have used MOD1.5(HD) on a heavy with Bosch 750s overvolted @ 36V and even that was probably more than was needed!
On Scopion Jr we use a pair of gold 24Vs @ 24V with a ratio of 4.5:1 through 2.5mm pitch, 10mm wide timming belts with 125 dia. wheels, as far as top speed goes Im not sure what it is, but anyone who has seen it drive knows it can take off across the arena like a scalded cat!
On the down side, as Alan rightly says they do run bloody hot!! and Im not convinced that drilling holes in them is the answer. I think the only way to keep them at reasonable temp. is to up the ratio to around 8 or 10:1 and make them work less hard!..down side of course is a serious reduction in speed, but this is in part compensated for by a proportional increase in torque. So at the end of the day, as with most things, you have to find a compromise that works for your machine!
On the other hand, if you want the ultimate soloution to your drive problems... http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_motors.htmlhttp://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_motors.html
and check out the Thin Gap Motors :)

Yeah but then look at the price tag of each motor its around £132.695 (roughly 1 USD = 0.555209 GBP) for one (High Torque) ThinGap motor only (minus shipping) while the 24v Gold Motor is only £24.95 (minus p&p). Unless your wallet is like Eds or you have the money to use its not a option for many people. :)

Chris - http://www.featherweights.org/forum

Hey, I never said they were cheap! I only said they were the ultimate soloution! But imagine a 4 wheel drive featherweight using 4 of them.. 1.2 Kw of drive on the floor!! (One for Ed :proud: )

1.2 Kw of drive on the floor!!*drool* and while your at it why not just add on some nice vulcalon wheels. :proud:

Chris - http://www.featherweights.org/forum

Nah, screw that!... http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_wheels.htmlhttp://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_wheels.html

TW custom machined wheels or NPC 4 drive wheels!

TW Wheels ... good point! humm.. durometer urethane :proud: *drool* Oh well I can at least dream, Ill go back outside in the cold and work on poor little MDF Conundrum on my workmate hehe..

Oh btw 4:1 ratio on Golds for drive, gosh thats the same ratio as what we use on Conundrums drum, lol I better take your advice and make the Gold work harder on 3:1

Chris - http://www.featherweights.org/forum

aha, while your all dreaming of thingaps in featherweights, us australian people all ready have one!!! its called minotuar...

http://www.abbl.org/robots/index.php?mode=view&id=69&sid=d088a4caba5475157289 0ffbc9bbfd4ehttp://www.abbl.org/robots/index.php...a54751572890ff bc9bbfd4e

Yeah, Minotaur will only have two though, but it hsad the awesome CNC machined 23:1 reduction boxes for them too. Maybe when we get some decent treads on T2M, we might step up the voltage to 24v and challenge him to a pushing match :)

1.2KW and vulkallon tyres wont make it stick to the floor. Micro Mute 2 uses 2x 480W motors, 4WD and 4 vulkallon tyres and it wheel spins everywhere, even with another feather attached to the front.

Motors are bosch 12V 120W (approx 3 dia) overclocked to 24V pulling around 10,000 rpm, 4.5:1 reduction to 5 wheels which ends up at around 25-30mph. The motors get warm, where as the batteries get HOT.... very hot....

Daniel, what about updating your webpage?

Daniel,
I know what you mean about M.M. Never has there been a robot more in need of a bigger arena!!
Extreamly impressive though!

For the 24V golds I agree with Geoff, I run about a 10:1 reduction with 4WD and they do get warm but not hot after a 5min battle.

P.I.M.P.anought uses 24V golds at 25.2V with an 8.8:1 reduction on 4X50mm wide 120mm diameter wheels. The motors still get nice and hot and so do the batteries. It has quite a lot of shove but not too much speed.

Joe Townsend

and it works quite well on 3 wheels aswell :)

jonno

Daniel, Just a thought on M.M.s drive set up, you use 2 4QD boards dont you? Just done the maths on your current and motor efficiency ratings and 480W+/- @ 24V is 20A+/-. To keep your battries a little happier, try winding the curent limit down to say 22-25A on each board. you shouldnt see any downturn in preformance but your battries will love you forever!!

LOL!
Batteries can atually love us?

Mr Stu

Stu, that was a figure of speech!..Mind you, what you do with your batteries are your business!! :)

Geoff, we use 2x 4QD NCC-70s de-rated to 50A. The batteries do get hot at this setting but they will hold out for 5 minutes (just) without too many problems.

I thought we were being nice to our batteries these days cos back in the good old days we used to run the original Micro Mute at a full 70 amps per board with the same motors. Now that was something to see :)

All I can say is dont try this with NiMh packs or small SLAs (or anything with a low current output) because they will go up in smoke.... orange smoke as I remember....

Orange Smoke - arrr the good old days yes.
I wanna see blue smoke :)

Geoff - now now, dont get ideas.
(Said keep it quite, you lied :sad:)

Mr Stu

Slightly off the point but still with gold motors in mind. How is the best way to keep the distance between the two gears?

Regards
Ian Mc Donald

Sheet of 10mm ali. Bore some accurate holes for the bearings and motor mount and hey presto.

mine are just mounted on 6mm polycarb. You shouldnt need to adjust gears providing they are mounted correctly.

Ive just finished a gearbox for use with my current project. It uses a 12v gold motor with heavy duty mod 0.8 gears.
It appears to be working quite well, but its a bit noisy. Despite the gearbox plates being waterjet cut the gears still arent perfectly well aligned (within 0.1mm though).
What lubrication should I be using? There will be electronic circuit boards mounted close to the gearbox so I dont want oil flying everywhere.
Ive not allowed the gears time to run-in yet so Im hoping theyll get quieter after a bit of use.

cheers
Mark
(see profile pic for photo of project)

nice job, most people dont bother with oil, mainly due to it picking up dust etc (seeing as robots run on wooden floors, there alot of it!). Gears are always abit noisy when ran dry, they should be ok. Ive never had any probs.

Yes, but I dont think this is for a robot. Looks more like an electric bicycle.

Or a feather disk weapon photographed from the bottom/top.

Youre all wrong, but Christians closest! Im attempting to build a robotic unicycle that self balances.

Mark, if you want to have a clean lubrificated gearbox, you will have to enclose it.
Depending on RPM, but I would use classic gear grease.
The next best thing is to use a classic pencil,and color the teeth.On other word, a thin coating of pure graphite. Dont overdo it, otherwise the graphite dust can cause trouble on the PCBs.

0.1 of a mil out, that wont make any diffrence lol. but if you want a super job you would want an enclosed gearbox. keeps all the dirt and grit out. we use a thick grease in venom and ploughbot. they work perfik

What do people think about running the 24v gold motors at 36v ?

36v of bats is heavy, Id guess the motor would get very hot, I think its completely enclosed