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So far as I can see the current FRA build rules do not include the requirement for a hydraulic pressure test point. Are there any plans to make this a requirement?
I ask because Im looking to acquire some equipment which uses an internal self-contained hydraulic system, and Im wondering if Ill have to take it apart to fit an extra connector.
The FRA build rules basically predate the Robot Wars rules for hydraulics. Robot wars requires a test point to eliminate the possibility of a team cheating.(new for series seven)
The FRA have assumed that roboteers are above such things and therefore no need to check pressures. Most robots have gear pumps fitted which are usually rated at 210 bar max, this point has been missed by the Robot Wars rule makers.
We do insist on a recognisable system relief valve for the open circuit which Robot Wars does not.It is our belief that Robot Wars are not concerned enough with what roboteers do in their garages, testing safely etc.
Should you wish to compete on both tv and the open circuit you will need both the relief valve and a test/gauge system.
We have a proposal to raise pump pressures up from 3000psi to 5000psi in line with America.
This Item will be up for discussion at our next meeting.
This proposal may if ratified will effectively offer disqualification for these uprated machines.
My own view is that a figure of 4000psi should be used, as it is the absolute maximum of an aluminium gear pumps pressure range. Someone has then to persuade the Robot Wars rule makers to allow for this increase to enable hydraulic robots some future development potential
FRA Hydraulics technical
I say Andy!!!!!
Keep those proposals going, I like them already.
Good news Andy,
The system I had in mind claims to run up to 300 bar (~4500psi) but can be modified to shut off at 200 bar. I will need to check that there is a relief valve.
Having just seen the FRA meeting minutes I would like to ask a similar question again.
I am looking into using a bottle jack as part of a weapon. These are entirely self contained, but use hydraulics internally. I have no idea what pressures these jacks use but since types with lifting capacities up to 20 tonnes are commonly available I expect they can be very high. The better types appear to have safety features so they cannot exceed their rated capacity.
Are these subject to the FRA rules on pressure limits and test points? I think pressure could be determined, but adding a test point would be prohibitively difficult.
As they are sold as a complete unit, the chances are that they already have been tested and verified.
It doesnt seem very legal to sell a jack that might explode if you lift something heavy!
the pressure is easy to calculate.
Whats the load on the box?
thats the cylinder piston face area?
pressure x area = force.
max rated pressure x PiRsquared = 20 tonnes or whatever the box says.
I dont know the cylinder radius - I havent found any technical drawings of a jack yet. You could make a guess given the diameter of the cylinder casing, but I dont even know that yet.
Pop into halfords, they always have jacks on display. get a diameter and away you go.
http://www.hyjacks.com/anjack.htmhttp://www.hyjacks.com/anjack.htm
http://www.hyjacks.com/H312.HTMhttp://www.hyjacks.com/H312.HTM
New hydraulic rules are now posted on the main site.
Main changes are
pressure max 272 bar was 200 bar
mandatory fitment of a test point to all heavies/ middle and light weights.
Advisory for feathers but not mandatory.
For specific advice contact FRA hydraulic technical
I like the fact that more Hydraulic robots are coming on the scene, but that will also mean more leaking robots will eventually appear.
I would like to propose an addition to the carrying cradle rule that for Hydraulic robots to have some kind of leak tray fitted in or under or as a part of the carrying cradle, so no or a least a minimal amount of hydraulic fluid can leak in the walkways and pit area. I think venue owners would not like hydraulic fluids in their carpets or gymfloor.
good call leo
oh Andy Kane did you get the delivery address?
surely solving a problem that doesnt exist? Shanem i will ask my dad when he gets back!
|Xx
Wait untill you have to repair a hose or replace the ram.
Oh, thats right, most of us dont have a spare robot in the back of the car.
Sorry Tom, leaking hydraulics arent an issue.
But to give the right example, Mantis will have a leak tray cradle.
quote:
surely solving a problem that doesnt exist?
Yet.
Once more hydraulic robots will get on the scene, more chances of leaks. I dont think my request is that far fetched.
Alright, dont get to angry about the fact that i have more than 1 robot, there is no need for abuse. I wasnt saying that hydraulic oil isnt an issue, but im more likely to throw up in a walkway.
Xx
but im more likely to throw up in a walkway
hmmm new rule, roboteers must have a drip tray installed too? :)
So far the robots like Kan-Opener and Tiberious have been quite clean. But we cant expect every robot to be as leak-free as they have been, specially when exiting the arena and taking battle damage.
ye, and at the rear aswell, just in case!
And can someone change the downloadable techcheck sheet online please? It still says 3000psi max pressure instead of 4000psi.
(Message edited by leorcc on December 10, 2007)
Shane, He said yes!
Leo, Tech check sheet to be review with assistance from roboteers on completion of new tech checking training course.
Xx
Edited as question already answered above.
Admin: Could you announce the publication of minutes please?
(Message edited by anukhet on December 10, 2007)
Tom, Im not angry nor even close to Jealous about the fact that there are a gazillion Kan-Openers.
(Team RCC has also more than 1 robot, in all the common weightclasses)
But Leo has a point.Hydraulics can and will leak.
Most of us here have experienced powerslides on Sir Killalots oilslicks. And if that machine was incontinent, it wasnt because a limited budget or weight issues.
And Tom, the DRG has a rule of no alcohol in the pits, so the throwing up issue is countered by this non FRA rule.
And, 3 years after the pressure raise for Hydraulics, and limitation of consumables for CO2 users the rule about CO2 is cast in concrete(and recently even chisseled in diamond) , but the 3000-4000 psi change isnt advertised. Oversight? Must be.
There is 1 active Kan-Opener, who said anything about alchol?
Xx
Lets not get sidetracked here please. All I want is to address the potential problem and come up with a solution before someting happens. If someone has a better solution then they are welcome to express them.
Specially in the featherweight class the hydraulics will take up a significant amount of the weight leaving less for armour therefore the chance of hits on the pipes or hoses or valve is not that far fetched.
(Message edited by leorcc on December 11, 2007)
No further comments on Kan-Openers or alcohol.
Concerning the safety issue of leaking oil. Leo anticipates the leaks well experience with Mantis, and as safety consious man he did give an affordable and easy solution.
After all, its not our problem if an Hydraulic robot sprays oil all over the expensive wooden floor of a sportshall.
upon which someone slips and breaks their neck, God forbid they are carrying a heavyweight to the arena at the time?
i had a pipe go on mantis once its was a tiny hole, only leaked under pressure and left nice hyralic fluid on my garage ceiling lol
At the winter tour final when Kan opener took damage and dumped oil over the arena floor, i thought it was great fun power sliding ripper in the oil.... took me back to the robot wars arena ... the good old days.
I know andy carries a big bag of rags ( i always know where to go if i need one :)) in case of a mess and cleaned it up very nice.
I dont think we need to write a drip tray into the rules, i think there is a point where rules can get a bit tedious.... however if a roboteer thought his robot was going to be a problem and have leaks and wanted to build a drip tray then far play to them. And they get a gold star.
At worst it will leak in the arena, or all over the table.
John
Quite honostly I was amazed that it wasnt in the rules before.
My main concern isnt that a robot leaks in the arena, but in walkways where people with heavies have to walk backwards to get their robot in the arena, one splash on the floor and there might be a serious problem.
I will leave it up to you to make it a rule or advisory only, but I would recommend to at least have it black on white. The amount of hydraulic robots will increase, and I want to be ready for it should something happen.