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Doing damage is key for any chosen weapon..
What is the best shape for doing so to what materials ?
How much force is required to penetrate hardox ?
Spinners appear to have 90 degree angle impact zones,
I've seen evidence for solid block approach
Sharp edges are easily damaged..
All I can say is it has taken 10 years of trial and error and thousands of pounds to get the information you are asking for.
I'd say a lot of 'damaging' bots, especially axes like Terrorherz and Thor, usually don't aim for penetration, but rather blunt force trauma to the components inside, especially the drive system. This is evident from THz's broad, blunt axe head.
What you are asking could fill a book; you need to give us some details on what type of weapon you are planning. Rory is right about the blunt force trauma; I am just as happy when one of my spinners throws an opponent into the roof or walls as when they rip off some armour - internal damage is just as effective for winning a match.
I was looking at various options before investing lots of money to change it later.
I wanted to look at what has the most damage for its shape.
Its interesting that people look to do internal damage through just good old fashion impact.
I was thinking rightly or wrongly along the lines of visually damaging a bot.
How solid hardox is an example copes with impact, does it bend of fracture first ?
Is there a point where thickness has no affect on how durable it is ?
As for designing weapons i was looking at what shape would cut into sheet hardox assuming its possible
Brick block approach or blade ? How effective is a sharp point..
I've also been told that laser cutting for the weapon is the wrong thing to do as it softens the edge, water jet does not affect the metal edge. Any experience of this anyone ?
The most damage for its shape. Single tooth disk does, in theory, the most damage for a given weight and power input. With the single tooth spinning bar as second.
Any sharp teeth won't be sharp after the first hit.
Damage trough impact. Shock mounting the electronics and drives is very very important.
Hardox will bend first, and then whole panels will be ripped off as the welds start to fail. Fracturing isn't in the books at the moment.
Thicknes of armor. If the shape and fastening are good, thickness adds to the protection.
Lasercutting does affect a few tenths of a mm on the edge of the material.
Not something i'm worried about. Welding affects everything a lot more, even with the right tools and rods.
But yes, waterjetting does the job better in that respect.
It also depends on what type of damage you want to cause, which will be related to the type of weapon you have.
For example, there isn't much point having a blunt/square tooth on a disc as you won't be fully utilising the inertia and force a disc can deliver. You would want a tapered or pointed tooth to focus that energy into cutting your opponents armour and then any remaining energy is used to toss them into the air/across the arena.
Also, you might want a flat tooth/head on a bar spinner as it has less inertia/force and you want to transfer as much force as possible. Best way to do that is give yourself a larger surface area to increase your chance of a good hit.
However, most people taper or sharpen the teeth on their weapons in some way, even if its just by a few degrees, to get that initial focused force to bite into their armour.
Our robots have two very different weapons. Binky has a 300mm diameter vertical disc with a single tooth, where as Conker 3 has 160mm diameter whisk. They are almost polar opposites in terms of the damage they aim to cause. Binky aims top cut and slice into armour, and use any remaining energy to toss its opponents into the air. Conker 3 on the other hand aims to rip and shock load any joins/welds to remove entire panels of a robot, and again any remaining energy tosses its opponent into the air. Both are very effective, but are quite different approaches.
I was catching up on Battlebots last night (I know how could I wait sooooo long) but a good example is Counter Revolution vs. Tombstone
Both have high impact weapons but its all about who gets the first bite :)
Lets assume the material was Hardox.
Carbide seems to be a power house and good example of a modern bot.
So to survive a direct hit from his blade, does anyone know or is willing to say how thick the material was that tried to defend again that and got away alive ?
Behemoth's scoop survived a couple of direct hits, I believe, before eventually coming off. As far as I know, that is 8mm Titanium. I know that's not hardox, but it might give you a ballpark idea.
Terrorhurtz's front armour is 6mm Hardox, shock mounted. If you go over to Beta, John Reeds Battlebots entry, it withstood Tombstone at full power and was again 6mm hardox, shock mounted.Quote:
Originally Posted by katch
Terrorhurtz stood up well, and it was 6mm Hardox. It wasnt just the material that made it stand up to it though, the angles of the steel deflected the blade and didnt have any catch points as well as being shockmounted to the rest of the robot
just noticed Alex's post oops lol
So we're look for 6mm and above in principle to be well protected, thanks all for your input. Every single post is both helpful and thought provoking.
Titanium is quite expensive, but never worked with it either so not sure if its for me i doubt i could weld it.
Its a good valid point that the lack of snag points / holes in the design limits the ability to further fling the bot and inflict immediate damage with the energy.
That said more holes also means lighter, but more snagging potential. Not something i'd considered.
Ripping off entire panels is some serious power brings up a good question too weld or too bolt together.
The next problem for me to think on is reach.. watching both battle bots and RW, it does appear that the more reach you have the less protection you need as the other bot just doesn't get close IF you can manoeuver well.
Or to go short reach does that actually mean less power over all less chance of the spinner damaging itself.
Titanium is around £60 a kilo. A m² 1mm sheet weights around 4.7kg.
Hardox in the better grades is £6 a kilo. The same m² 1mm sheet would be 7.9kg.
Can you design around that weight difference?
Are there shear force statistics for that 1mm sheet though? If Hardox outdoes Titanium in hardness, then You can just have thinner Hardox armour than you would have if it were Titanium, and save money for the same weight.
Titanium in the better grades is softer than hardox, and has similar tensile strength.