[Question] Ideas on where to build my robot.

Hi, I'm new to the FRA forums, and this is my first post, so pleased to meet you all. :) I've been passionate about fighting robots since I was small, but the resurgence of Robot Wars prompted me to search out this site. A friend and I are looking into building a heavyweight to enter a future Robot Wars series (and hopefully other events) but following advice from this forum, we've decided to both have a go at building a featherweight each first, and then pit them against each other. Problem is, I'm a university student living in a flat in Sheffield, and even at home, we don't have any kind of proper tool-shed or garage.

So does anyone have any ideas where I can build my bot? Obviously I can do electronics or minor mechanical work in my flat, but when it comes to any drilling, grinding or cutting of metal, I'd need some kind of workshop. I'm aware of the hackerspaces that are dotted around, but they seem more focused towards electronic and programming work than any kind of resistant materials, and I don't think it's a viable solution for the amount of time I'd need to spend on the robot.
Does anyone have any experience with this kind of problem? I can get hold of power tools myself, I just need somewhere to work.

I'm a student too and currently building my first FW. I dont think it would be too difficult to build one in your student flat if you make it out of plastic such as HDPE, as long as there are no rules against you using stuff like jigsaws or drills in your flat.

That's the problem - I share the house with several other students, and I don't think they'd appreciate the noise. Not to mention I have no proper workbench, just a desk I use for my PC. Thanks for replying though, let me know how yours turns out! :D

Hi, I am also a new to here and I have the same problem. I am currently building a beetleweight as my first robot and planing to build a featherweight. I do not own any workshop, so I send the CAD drawing to a workshop which offers a machining services. This is expensive, I am a little regret. I do a little mechanical work in my room, on my bed with some wood sheets on it, it is big enough and space-saving. I found it is better to go to a open place to saw something, especially plastic, scraps will fly everywhere. Tools I use are a wrench set from 1-10, a mini screwdriver set, a saw and a drill as the only power tool. I think a vise is very useful but it is diffifult to install.
Placing some wood sheets on the bed as a simple workbrench is my advise, waiting for experienced builders' advises.

Hi R9000, welcome to the forum!

I'm also a student and I agree finding a place to work on robot things can be a problem. Be thankful you aren't in halls of residence though - I definitely can't get away with drills and jigsawing here! Progress on my featherweight has been quite slow and restricted to holidays and the odd weekend. If you ask your flatmates and they are really annoyed by noise that much, or if there is some weird rule about power tools, then perhaps consider just doing that too?

I also don't have a garage or workshop at home, but one of our few D.I.Y tools which wasn't broken or totally rusted was this workmate thing which I strongly recommend thinking about:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker...ecker+workmate
I usually just set this thing up on my garden patio, or in the kitchen when it's raining. Then when I'm done it just folds away. Honestly not sure how I would have managed without it! Others may have a different way of doing things, but it's been super useful for me.

Not sure how much research you've done or how experienced you are with electronics and D.I.Y, but I'd recommend taking some time to read build threads and make a list of everything you'll need including power tools and the cost of stuff etc. Check out my build thread if you want a place to start: http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/thre...t-robot-please

If you are totally new to this like me, I'd consider building something super simple first like in the video I posted in my build thread. There are some differences between UK and Australian building rules but I think that's mentioned in the thread too. I started designing and building a featherweight from the ground up right away, and although my design is basic, I would rather that I had done something easier first, just to get some sort of robot up and running.

I hope this helped out and good luck. :)

Student roboteer here aswell. I build Nanoweights, FleaWeights, Antweights and Beetleweights at uni since they can be worked much more easily with hand tools. I build heavies and feathers back at my family home which actually has the toolset I can build with.

Feathers can easily be built in a uni situation if you go down the HDPE route. A drill and good saw will go a long way (Though I'd use a jigsaw or panel saw and just keep the noise to sociable hours).

Thanks for all the advice, guys, I really appreciate it.
@dotDominic That workmate thing looks excellent, I think I'll probably end up getting one of those. It'd certainly save me getting a workbench and a vice, at least for now.
I've taken a look at some of the build threads and I've seen that Australian Robot Wars video series. I'm fairly experienced with electronics and DIY (I study Mechatronic Engineering), but the basis of my design at the moment should be fairly easy to create anyway, and then I should be able to attach my lifter mechanism once the main chassis is up and running.

HDPE sounds like the way to go for featherweight armour, at least as a starting point. I assume it's good against impacts, but what's it like against cutters and rotating drums?

I just use HDPE and wood as build materials and just use a battery jigsaw and cordless drill on a work mate. Fill a medium sized tool box with some cheap screwdrivers, pliers, snips, allen keys, spanners and hammer from ASDA or similar. Your whole tool collection will literally stack up in a neat pile in the corner of the room if you leave the drill and saw in their plastic cases.

HDPE fairs reasonably well against about everything, if thick enough and well mounted.

Of course, going head on with gruesome machines like Decimator or NST ain't the way to longlivety.

All right, good to hear. I just ordered a DX6i transmitter and receiver today, so I guess I'll try constructing the thing in my room for now, using the workmate, keeping the noise to a minimum. I might make a Build Diaries thread once I get something material to show. :) Thanks for all your help, everyone.

A quick tip as you get started.
Mount everything on a sheet of wood or even a cutting board and test it out.

No transference of electricity, cheap and you can easily view all your components.
Also, don't ever shorten any wires unless you're really almost done.
It's more work adding inches of wire than snipping them off....

Thanks, yeah I'll try that. And yeah, I know full-well about those wires from my Electronic Products GCSE and other work I've done in the past. Short wires are no fun at all.

Ok, just another quick question before I begin designing in earnest (and keeping it in this thread because I might as well). I've been doing plenty of research, and I'm looking at running the classic cannibalized drill gearmotors, but I wanted to go for a tracked robot rather than wheels. I realize this could go varying degrees of wrong, but all the same, I thought I'd give it a try. Though I'll be protecting the outer face of the treads and sprockets with armour, I wanted to go with metal tracks for durability, so I looked at some of the RC tank track designs. I'm an RC modelling newbie, but the Heng Long tracks (especially these type) caught my eye. Does anyone have any advice on tracks, or Heng Long ones specifically? I'm especially hung up on sprocket diameter, because I ideally want something that'll be as wide as the height of my robot (currently I'm thinking 70-90mm). I guess I could make my own sprockets, not sure how much trouble that would be.

So any ideas, or am I making a terrible mistake? ;)

You'd have to use 4 drill motors with that, 2 on their own with tracks will die.

Ah, is that due to excess weight and tension in the tracks? Would it work with two if I geared them down to a lower speed (although I know this kind of defeats the purpose of drill motors)?
Also, I just thought, can you drive the two motors on one side with just one ESC, provided it can handle the current?

You wouldn't want to gear them down more, they're already on the slow end of drive.

If we take a 2wd bot and a 4wd bot as an example (Most the principles of a 4wd bot apply to tracks). When a 2wd bot turns the wheels just turn and follow the arc of the turn. When a 4wd bot turns the wheels slip sideways as they aren't lined up with the arc, this produces a high turning load as the motors now no longer have to turn the robot but also slide the wheels across the floor to some extent.

So while 2 drill motors will happily move and turn a 2wd bot a 4wd bot is a much bigger challenge and is likely to burn them out. Tracks add to this by having the turning load of 4wd with the extra tension and friction of tracks leading to a very quick death to motors. This is why most drill motored robots that are 4wd use 4 motors as they need more power.

You can do 2 motors for one side off of one esc, a TZ85 will be perfectly happy with 2 drill motors.

One thing with tracks, it's fine if you want to go that route but be warned they offer a lot of extra challenge and unreliability for no considerable gain other than looking cool. :P

Wow, thanks for all the info! Yeah that makes a lot of sense now, considering the centre of rotation is now in between all four wheels, and the tracks will scrape along the floor. I think since I'm going 4WD now, I'll still go with the tracks. I like a challenge, and hopefully if they get too unreliable I can just switch them out for wheels and maintain really decent pushing power.
Again, thanks for all the sage wisdom, I really appreciate it.

A 2wd drill powered robot will physically push 13.6kg without any problems. They key to out-pushing someone is getting under them and lifting their drive off the floor. Tracks are a world of pain.

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Originally Posted by daveimi

They key to out-pushing someone is getting under them and lifting their drive off the floor.

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That should be happening too with my robot. :P So are you saying tracks aren't worth it at all? Like I said, I can always switch to wheels retrospectively.

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Originally Posted by Shakey

You can do 2 motors for one side off of one esc, a TZ85 will be perfectly happy with 2 drill motors.

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I've been looking into the TZ85s today, but the only ones I can find are for brushless motors, and to my knowledge drill motors are brushed. Were you suggesting I mod them to be brushed, or are there brushed TZ85s I haven't seen? I'm also unsure on the current draw from 18v drill motors - could I use an ESC with lower current rating? I checked out Ranglebox, 85A ESCs are sold out but 30A ESCs are in stock.
Here Rapidrory suggested the motors need around 60A, but the thread ended with Giles going for making his own ESCs. I'm not opposed to this, but while I'm not clueless on PWMs, I don't think I have the experience to build a reliable ESC at this point.

TZs are brushless ESCs that are commonly 'hacked' to become brushed ESCs.

Ranglebox re-sell the pre-hacked versions, or you can hack them yourself (there's plenty of info on this forum).

Ah yeah, I've found the thread. Thanks!

By all means build tracks, I meant what I said in a friendly and easy going way :) For a first build sticking to tried and tested stuff is usually a big help till you find your feet. It sounds crazy but in a way there aren't many positives for tracks other than looking cool and being a bit different. It's added complication and they're really hard to get right. A lot of the basics of robot building use tried and tested methods, and the advice is usually to stick to the tried and tested methods to get the basics and use that as a base to build upon.

Alright, I appreciate the advice, and I'm sure you're 100% correct. At this point, I've already ordered the tracks and sprockets yesterday, but I can always change them out if things get too complicated. Had I not already ordered, I'd probably follow your advice here. I understand what both you and Shakey said, and I don't want to come across as me just ignoring it, especially having no experience. But as it stands I'll give it a try, then I've only got myself to blame if it doesn't work out. ;) Either way, hopefully it'll be an interesting and educational experiment.

Im not the most experienced roboteer either but wouldn't metal tracks have no traction on the metal floors some arenas have? Biteforce (Battlebot champ 2015) I think got round this by putting magnets in the tracks. Feel free to say im completely wrong :p

It'll probably be rubber tracks that he is using

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Originally Posted by Andy

It'll probably be rubber tracks that he is using

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Nope, he said he was going to use Heng Long tracks which are metal :-|

ah, in that case i am not sure either lol

The tracks are metal segments with rubber studs bolted to the segments.

Ok cool, I see

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Originally Posted by daveimi

The tracks are metal segments with rubber studs bolted to the segments.

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Well actually, the tracks I got happen to be fully metal, with ridges on the plates. I did think about traction, and I'll apply some foam or silicone pads if needed. The biggest challenge is more likely going to be getting them to run over the top and bottom of the body with the relatively small sprockets (about 45mm diameter). Anyway, still gathering parts, so I'll get back to you guys on the situation.

I got the wrong end of the stick, I was talking about the tracks on Biteforce lol didn't realise you were talking about which tracks the R9000 was going to use.

On tracks, look at the warmachines that use those. In other words, Tanks. That could give you some idea's to run them under and over. I think the best inspiration can be found with the early generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gusc...jkpjd8&index=9

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Originally Posted by daveimi

I got the wrong end of the stick, I was talking about the tracks on Biteforce lol didn't realise you were talking about which tracks the R9000 was going to use.

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Ah right, indeed it appears that Biteforce had custom-made tracks with threaded metal plates attached to what are basically bicycle chains, with small rubber feet screwed on. But yeah, I'll probably have to employ a similar tactic if they're slipping about too much.
Attachment 5720

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Originally Posted by maddox10

On tracks, look at the warmachines that use those. In other words, Tanks. That could give you some idea's to run them under and over. I think the best inspiration can be found with the early generation.

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Yes, I was thinking of something like the British WWI tank's design. Either that or a kind of 'squashed hexagon' shape of you catch my drift, with the sprockets vertically in the middle at both ends, but idler wheels in the middle to make the tracks contact the ground.

Keep the drivesprockets in the middle of top and bottom.
Even the tracks get destroyed, you should some drive left.

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Originally Posted by maddox10

Keep the drivesprockets in the middle of top and bottom.
Even the tracks get destroyed, you should some drive left.

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How do you mean 'in the middle of top and bottom'? If you mean literally vertically in the middle, they likely won't reach the ground as the body is too tall.

Use a top and bottom drive sprocket then.

Hard did a simular thing using drives with a top and bottom wheel.

http://robotwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hard

Started a build thread here.