https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEb3...re=youtu.be&a=
Printable View
Must av good insurance lol.Though i would feel pretty bad if it was my robot and someone got hurt. Reminds me of James Baker's event in wrexham! Cant be bothered to wait for video to fully load but maybe robots are turned right down i dont know.
Wow :(
There was another event recently that only used crowd control barriers to protect the crowd. Didn't end up going so well for a number of people
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...tunt-show.html
There was also that incident a few months back in India.
Whilst taking fighting robots half way around the world is cool, the same rules and regs governing both the robots and the arenas must surely follow.
Well said. Even if its for your own piece of mind! Cant blame the roboteers though. Transporting an arena to singapore must be pretty expensive! At robotlive demo events at mgm they still have the full screen and the robots are turned down and only playing around.
This is RR/RW in Australia, we're heading out to Singapore in a few weeks. It's a shame to see arena's like this still being used, we're working closing with the Singapore organisers to make sure we have a safe arena to run in when we arrive.
As with Robots Live, we have run events in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and although very expensive had to get an entire arena built to the same specs as ours in the UK. There have been lots of enquiries but we have to turn them down if safety isn't meeting the FRA guildlines. It could ruin it for all of us if the worst was to happen :(
Manslaughter charges anyone?
OK I just saw this earlier today. And let me say its a little F*&%ed.
Nobody from Australia is attending this event as we are hosting our Nationals competition in a separate state otherwise I hope someone would have said something to the organisers.
Oh and here is a video which makes it look worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_VGO9IuvRY
I really want to know what happened here as initially we were in talks with EB to do the event for our nationals competition however after a few months they dropped off talks and then announced Robot Wars was Coming for the First Time from the UK. *sigh*
I don't really care too much as we are more interested in the compeition not the show which is always difficult to balance at these sorts of events. However I really want to know what the hell happened with the arena.
What I am guessing happened was that EB said they would make the arena (something which they promised us) then the guys showed up there and this is what they got. Not sure if this is likely or not but I really want an explanation. As one person getting hurt is the difference between us never being able to run a public event ever again and this is just bullshit.
For anyone who is interested in what a real Australian Feather only arena looks like.
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...58075653_n.jpg
Notice the 6mm polycarb and steel......
I want it to be known that we would never run Heavies in a mesh cage in front of the public.
That ends my rant.
Steve
They don't have any polycarb screens in Australia? What about the RoboWars guys?
It baffles me that EO's would deem that kind of setup safe enough to have a crowd SITTING a tiny 2 meters from the action...
Lol thats pretty dodgy... reminds me of the old days of events in school playgrounds.
It's probably quite simple really as to why they went with Jonno. If your given the option of 2 clients and one brands themselves as the "official TV show" then that's what they're going to go for. The fact is that other than some logos it's just RR.Quote:
Originally Posted by marto
They most likely had a deal to build the arena, but it's their duty to make multiple trips to go and see the arena designs and building throughout the process to make sure well in advance that there is a safe arena being produced, and if not call the show off. It's irresponsible not just because their insurances almost certainly won't cover anything, but with the robot wars brand being used we all fall under that image and so it has far greater effects on other organisers around the world to if they were just called roaming Robots.
I think it's about due for another FRA meeting.
I completely understand why they went with the brand and sure they were better equipped to put on a show.
But I am very unhappy with the level of safety which was employed.
I stressed the importance of the arena in my contact with them but they obviously completely ignored that when they switched to RR. Is there anyway to get in contact with EO as I would like some sort of explanation as its the rest of us here in Aus which are going to get screwed if there is/was an incident.
Steve
Yes, we do have a full polycarb arena that can contain feather spinners. This was happening the same time 900km north.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon_nichols
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npLTCMYvq8Q
You need at least a 1.5m area around the arena before the crowd. They shouldn't be right up against the polycarbonate like that. That said this make the other event look like death row.
In fairness though Alex, the drivers stand right next to Polycarb at the champs in the uk...
I specified the crowd. A driver knows when to step back and what machines could produce a dangerous accident and so they are aware. The crowds are generally not as well informed. Also if a driver is injured they know it comes as a hazard of the hobby, if you injure a spectator that is a whole other ball game. Its not perfect logic but there is a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamO
There is bollarads around the arena which are meant to keep spectators 1m+ away from the arena however these tend to creep in throughout the day. I am not particularly worried for non-spinners for the spinners I usually do a walk around before the fight. Still I Think we are slightly off topic. The 1m vs 1.5m gap behind polycarb and steel is somewhat moot compared to a mesh fence.
Steve
I agree. How did the Feather event go? I saw the damage to Mr Mangle.Quote:
Originally Posted by marto
Multiple trips? to Australia? Irresponsible as it may be, if Jonno has a contract that states his company has no liability for the audience in the event of debris. - he doesn't have to cancel squat. Not legally his problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_ploughbot
I know you are more of a moral man than that, Grant but you don't have the RW rights holders on your back either.
Quote:
but with the robot wars brand being used we all fall under that image and so it has far greater effects on other organisers around the world to if they were just called roaming Robots. I think it's about due for another FRA meeting.
You could well ask for an FRA meeting at Gloucester but doesn't mean Jonno has to stick around for it. The fact that the public associates Robot Combat with Robot Wars isn't his technically concern either. Which means he can play footloose and fancy free with impunity, the public perception of your events.Quote:
Originally Posted by marto
Ceri, It won't matter, if a member of the public is badly injured or killed by a robot it will reach back to the insurance companies. And that will be that they will not insure any events. We all have the same responsibility for safety, wherever we are.
I could sign a contract that says I could go out and kill someone. Doesn't mean that I won't be held liable for my actions if I followed through.
In my eyes if someone were to be injured or killed this would fall under gross negligence which would be a willful disregard for the safety of those in the audience. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on to defend yourself as the rules are well stated here and have been previously followed with regards to arena standards.
The event should have never taken place. If that is the arena that's been provided then you don't run the event until a proper arena is in place.
Completely missed the point of my post. Thanks. Yes, every person has a responsibility to Health & Safety. I'm not for anybody waiving responsibilities.
The arena rules on this site aren't legally binding though.Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon_driver
Legally, they are recommendations of safety under threat of the volunteers not turning up. Doesn't mean anyone has to obey them.
Legally, there is nothing the FRA can do to stop this happening anywhere. The ball is entirely in Jonno's court.
Unless Robot Combat was listed as a sport by Sport England with the FRA listed as an official national body.
yeah you're right, what was the point of your post?
Legally, there is nothing the FRA can do to stop this happening anywhere.
If at the end of the day my robot gets mashed in the arena its all part of parcel of the sport/hobby. I still duck when a robot hits the polycarb.
Precedence has been set in the safety measures held by all EO's. If injury occurs and that precedence hasn't been followed I would not like to be defending that position.
Its not that different to a "state of the art" defence
The thing is that the FRA rules are insured, and all of is EO's state to our insurance con pairs that we follow the GRa rules and arena safety guildlines to be able to get insurance. So it is legally binding in that respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by psychostorm
With regards to going to Australia multiple times, we had to go to Abu Dhabi 3 times before hand, and they came to us twice to inspect the arena and see how it all works and gets setup. Alan has also been to Singapore to check the arena being built for his event later in the month. It's all well and good to accept a job because they offer you a decent amount of money, but if they don't have the extra money to pay for making sure the event is safe then we always have to turn it down.
Also, whoever's insurance is being used at that event, the insurance company will always look for who's responsible. That will always track back to the "experts" on that field which regardless of what anyone says will be Jonno. I'm really not trying to jump on the situation or make things worse, but these are the things we need to consider every week at Robo Challenge now and it only takes one case of negligence to destroy our business and years of hard work, aswel as someone else's life.
The headline will be "fighting robot kills/seriously injures specatator" that would effect everyone, not just RW/RR.
I'm rather thankful the India incident didn't make it beyond the community
Anyone reading the FRA Robotic Event Safety Guide? http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/docu...ent-safety.pdf
I'm guessing that was a class 5 arena under the FRA guidelines. They could run the robots but without weapons.
Also under your guidelines the Australian arena would be a class 5 because we don't have an internal wall. If we had the inner wall it would be a class 2F arena and would cost triple the price to build. But our arena origional came from plans drawn up by Professor David Calkins from RoboGames, so it American in origin.
And I forgot to mention we now have a air filtration unit to install on the roof to clean all that nasty LiPo smoke. That'll be a world first.
It doesn't even come close to meeting the class 5 arena specs.
So, no official comments?
The rw guys aren't back yet, but I think we are due comment from the fra and rw when possible.
What is the legal hierarchy in all this? I am not sure how it all works but surely the FRA can withdraw its support for his events? Or rule that as he isn't following their rule set that he is on his own? I have no idea what that would do but we can't let this happen again.
i always wanted to be on the jonno gang :-(
Great rant Swanny :)
Edit - Hang on a minute, how the hell are you a legendary roboteer and I'm just a regular bog standard roboteer?!?!?!? Mother ucker I won robot wars!!!!
Haha yes if was a good rant shane ! Thought it might have been deleted by now, I don't think anything will happen I don't see what the fra can do as it's only run by roboteers anyway, what's the worst..... Roboteers not turn up for events ? There is always more willing to go. I think the eos can do whatever they want it's going to affect them a lot more than us if something goes wrong as they have so much invested. It's in their interest to keep it safe.
I agree safety has to be of the highest priority in all events, this makes us all look like amateurs and really doesn't give the exposure we really want. Not only is it not safe it also looks quite boring as the machines need to be so carefully controlled.
Due to a number of comments in this thread that are not constructive it is unfortunately necessary to close it to further posts.
An investigation into this event is currently being conducted and I would ask everyone to await the outcome of this before making further comment without the full facts. Note that the investigation may take a number of weeks to conclude.