Anti-pit devices and immobilisation

Ever since Robot Wars finished, I've noticed that the pits in all the arenas seem to be a lot shallower than the old Robot Wars arena, so much so that machines can now actually flip themselves out of the pit with relative ease, or if you're The Saint/Seraphim, just disregard the pit altogether and drive over it like it's a mild inconvenience.

Because of this, have the general attitudes towards Anti-Pit devices such as that of Tornado's in the Series 6 final changed? I do realise that the frame was intended to keep Razer away, but it was my understanding that it was banned for Series 7 for being an Anti-Pit thing, though that could just be false information...

As an aside too, has the pit been changed to be more shallow as a result of it being an easy immobilisation and therefore giving an opportunity to escape, or is it to do with the structure of the arenas and how they have to be broken down and reassembled regularly? Just curious that's all, seems like quite a notable change compared to Robot Wars of old!

The depth of the pit is actually more related to the height the arena is off the floor. Since you have to raise the whole arena off the ground to get a decent depth of pit then it gets a)very heavy b)very expensive and C)more complicated to assemble.

It is currently up for debate in either direction but it will fall to the EO's and the FRA to decide what the rules are at any given event.

At the champs at GSL for example, I believe the rule is that touching the bottom of the pit counts as out, this stops flippers from being able to escape and machines with large wheels have to be weary of it like every other team.

Personally I agree with that ruling, it gives EVERY robot a chance to win outright of their weapon fails or if they have no weapon (though I am not a fan of bricks or boxs after your first event). The same logic could be said for an OOTA as some flippers are so powerful they could in theory fire themselves back in they were lucky.

I thought so, it's always going to get more difficult the higher up you raise it, suppose it wouldn't be that bad if it was a more permanent structure but it's not...

That sounds a fair rule too, I have seen in the past that flippers have been able to work their way out which in my mind gives them a bigger advantage than every other weapon type, considering there's OOTAs as well - granted, there's spinners that can do that now too, but spinners generally can't get out of the pit!
It does too, I agree - it definitely helps level the playing field a little in some cases... Same with bricks too, gives them a chance if they can't cause any damage! I intend to stick with my box for a good few years if it stays viable, mainly because it'll be one of those full-body hammer sorts instead of just pushing!

That'd be an interesting one with flippers getting themselves back into the arena, have any of them ever managed that?

Flippers that go OOTA stay very still in the free space between arena and polycarb.

The idiot trying to flip the robot back in the arena probably will get a ban from the EO.

Alex: The rule last year was 10 seconds to get out of the pit. Only event I know of that had the "hit the bottom, you're out" was the Euro champs at Norwich.

It was just an educated guess Dave, but I would like to see it implemented.

We used to use the hot the floor of the pit your out rule until the FRA put a new set of rules together so that all FRA events are identical.
That means that 10 seconds immobilisation and your out. That means if your in the pit for 10 seconds, immobilised, or out the arena.

If Robochallange run with the "in the pit your out" then it could be argued they are not running an FRA event! (They ARE sticking with the rules so it defiantly is an FRA event) the rules are fixed and took ages to get them sorted last year, I'm not entirely happy with them, but a compromise was agreed by a democratic vote of the roboteers. and all sides will respect them.
The Euro champs were run by Ed Hoppit. I don't think it was an FRA sanctioned event so he could make up the rules as he wished and so he did.
I do get a bit tired of the "in the TV series the producer introduced this rule" they are not in the loop any more. They are making "reality TV for the brain dead! the rules were made for good TV that's all. They didn't care about the sport they just cared for themselves and the money they could make out of the hard working dedicated roboteers that deserved a much better deal than they got.

The current competition regulations can be found here.

Quote:

---

Immobilisation Any robot that is unable to move or demonstrate control may be counted out by the judges. This may be due to mechanical failure, entanglement with the arena or arena hazards, such as the pit. When the judges identify a robot that is classed as immobile, a 10 second countdown will begin. During this time should the robot free themselves the countdown will be stopped. Robots unable to move after the countdown reaches zero are knocked out and must not intentionally interfere in the fight. Robots in the pit at the end of the fight shall be deemed knocked out.

---

Quote:

---

Out Of The Arena When a robot is thrown out of the arena that robot will be deemed knocked out. The fight may be stopped while the robot is made safe should circumstances require this.

---

Because it is basically impossible to clearly define when a robot is in the pit, it counts as immobilisation. This then means that robots passing over the edges (but that don't fall in) aren't out. If you get caught on the edge (because one of your wheels is over the pit) you get counted out. And those that bounce off the sides/ bottom/ other robots in the pit and come back out are still in. This makes it much easier to settle difficult to call situations when a decision has to be made straight away since wrong decisions often result in arguments.

Quote:

---

The Judges Decision is Final Arguing with the judges may result in disqualification from the competition.

---

Whatever happens it is clear that the regulations must be consistent. For that reason all FRA competition is run to FRA competition regulations that have been agreed by a voting majority of the roboteers. Where events have run to variations of the rules this has always demonstrated problems and this only results in disappointment.

The short answer is that the shallow pit is a result of the arena design and not the rules. Event organisers are encouraged to design mechanisms to make the pit more effective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by craig_colliass

I do get a bit tired of the "in the TV series the producer introduced this rule" they are not in the loop any more. The rules were made for good TV that's all. They didn't care about the sport they just cared for themselves and the money they could make out of the hard working dedicated roboteers that deserved a much better deal than they got.

---

Sorry Craig edited your quote. More to emphasize my point.

It was just for TV. As Ed will tell you, if the director thinks it would make better TV - he'd happily throw away the entire rule book to make it fit more in line with the plan.

I personally don't begrudge the Robot Wars staff for making decisions that were more TV friendly. I begrudge them the hypocrisy of decisions that didn't.

And two of them involved the pit.

The most important thing is the future of the sport and we must evolve the rules to make the sport more appealing to the viewer as they are the next potential roboteers and they have to be entertained to be interested. We can let everyone vote for what best suits their robot or circumstances however I plead that people think about the future of our sport before voting on rules or anything else.

This should probably be the start of a new thread but I would really like to see a renewed interest and action from roboteers to support Kane and the FRA to stop the sport becoming old and stagnant. I would propose starting with a meeting to get action started and involve the EO's as they have the weight to make things possible.