Event safety and the need for a proper fully enclosed arena

Hey Howdy,
My name is Steven Nelson and I am a founding member of the SORC and the RFL in the USA. I started doing combat robotics in 1997 after watching Robot Wars live in San Francisco, California. I've built over 30 robots from 1 lb. to 340 lbs. and have been a competitor, Event organizer, Safety officer Tech inspector, Judge, Head arena wrangler and just about everything else. To get to the point I am interested in what you folks think about the unfortunate incident that happened last weekend at a Robotic Combat event at a University in India. Basically they ran an event with 50 kg. robots with spinning weapons in a very weak and uncovered arena and a large piece of steel bar stock broke loose from one of the robots weapon and flew over the dodgy barrier and hit a competitor directly in the face. I know that you folks in England fight under basically the same rules that we all developed in the last 20 years or so. You also require strong arenas for any type of robotic combat with or without spinning weapons you even have posted guidelines for arena construction standards which is great. So Basically I' like to hear your feedback on what they are doing to the sport in India and how can we all make it safer over there. Safety is in all of our best interests and for the sport in general. Anyways, check this out....

Original article...
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/repor...lation-1946003


The Video of the incident (warning it's graphic)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjxCX83Cr1Y


Several videos that really show what's considered normal in robotic combat in India!

One Bad Idea... http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq72...eDXh24Q/videos

There idiots, and its natural selection at work. I doubt very much you will change what they do over there.. afterall its the country that comutes to work on the side of a train.

What happened was really bad, and things have been flying out of there areana's for ages.. suprised it didnt happen sooner. Just glad the kids still alive.

All you can do is refuse to go to there events until safety improves, and show them either our, or your rules as guidlines.

I can't believe the utter lack of sense and safety, you can only hope that this incident forces them to rethink how they run their events because if it happens again I doubt they would be so lucky, they should consider it a wakeup call.

I know some of our event organisers have been invited over but decined until they bring their safety and arenas more up to our level. This needs to be a concern of all of us, I agree with Steve in that respect. Something the FRA maybe needs to look at as it may affect events in this country indirectly. Dave is right the guy is lucky to be alive but next time they might not be so lucky.

It's remarkable that this didn't happen 3 years ago. Or perhaps it did, and wasn't documented. The machines in India have been really improving in the past 12 months, there are several that look like they'd have a fair chance of holding their own in modern middle-heavyweight combat. The arenas don't appear to have improved at all.

Also, I dislike the tone that seems to be coming from this; the suggestion that it's all the EO's fault and that somehow the competitors were forced to build and compete in these arenas. The builders themselves know better than anyone how dangerous their robots can be. As it has been in Europe and over the Atlantic for years, if there is a safety issue, the roboteers rally and get it dealt with. It's the moral responsibility of the competitors. That generally seems to have been ignored and the blame put on the EO, which might be correct legally, but isn't the whole story. I'm not defending the EO, for the record.

Happily, I have seen one or two top Indian teams saying they now refuse to compete until a decent arena is built, which is a step.

All that being said, it is of course a tragedy that someone did get hurt, and so badly. I hope he makes a full recovery. I just hope it finally penetrates the apparent stubbornness of those involved and they now take substantial positive action towards improving safety.

Why not invite them over here? They would see the arena, see the level of safety required on even 13.6kg machines and then get taught a lesson as to why our arena is like this as we slam bits of their machines against the polycarb. NST, 720, Galactus, Drumroll... just one could rip their machines to pieces.

Give them the plans for the RC arena and tell them to build that, to spec.

Just read the article... ACRYLIC! Its made of Acrylic! And they are meant to be engineers! (That said the panel would have shattered if it was so its probably 5mm Polybarb.)

EDIT: Reads Ellis's far more sensible and diplomatic answer... yeah, what he said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DqYN8gJBEA

Things like this have happened before as people look over the walls, its just before they ducked out of the way in time.

I do however agree with Ellis, the competitors are just as much at fault as the EO, it's their choice to take part

Sorry Sam, didn't realise my post could have looked like a dig at you, I was referring to the various posts on Facebook from the competitors at these events!

Feel a need to back the competitor's corner here.
They're just a bunch of kids that want to take part in a robotics championship, the person that got hit was 16? I know at that age I would have assumed the organiser's would have been responsible enough to ensure everyone's safety and would have been so excited about the possibility of FIGHTING ROBOTS that whether the arena meets certain criteria would be at the bottom of my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Ellis

Also, I dislike the tone that seems to be coming from this; the suggestion that it's all the EO's fault and that somehow the competitors were forced to build and compete in these arenas.

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Having seen more arenas and competitions from the last couple of months I'd say there is plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Also though I may not fault the EO for what happened 100%, I can fault them for how they dealt with the aftermath.


From the article:

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He was discharged and asked to go home after being provided first aid, even though he was bleeding continuously and needed stiches.

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“We never expected IIT Bombay to take such a callous approach towards this issue,” said a participant from Malaysia. They, along with others, refused to play the game after the incident. However, organisers reportedly assured them nothing would happen and continued the game till late evening

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Regardless on who is to blame for what, that is not the way to handle a situation like this.

It's times like this where I think there should be a 'World Combat Robotics Council' or something, to unify all the different Combat Robot organisations around the globe to make them all safe and keep the sport alive, and if there is already such a group they need to be having serious words with these EOs and competitors... As unfortunate as it is that someone was hurt, at least they've not been killed. That'd be a huge blow for the sport as a whole, and dare I say that if that was a headline on BBC news or something, 'Student killed at Robot Fighting event', insurance would probably increase for the events, and people might not want that risk of having events in their venues over here and across the world as a worst case scenario.

Maybe that's a bit far out, but that can't really be risked for the sake of everyone's wellbeing and the sport's existence. Perhaps inviting the governing bodies or top EOs or whatever of the Indian side of the sport can't harm, then they can see how our arenas are constructed and see what's needed to keep some of these machines safely enclosed. Hopefully these unfortunate events serve as a wake-up call for them...

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Originally Posted by PJ-27

Feel a need to back the competitor's corner here.
They're just a bunch of kids that want to take part in a robotics championship, the person that got hit was 16?

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The article says 19. Same age I built Conker. Problem is that safety is lax everywhere around them, the whole country, well most of it. I know its not really a true comparison but 1950's F1, everyone stood at the side of the road. No one really took stock of the risks, its was all part of the show, until someone gets killed. Took them 30 years to sort that out and even then it wasn't perfect. [I have just watched Rush if you are wondering why I am comparing the two.]

Ellis sorry if it looked like i was taking offence i did realise that my comment looked like i was just placing all of the blame on the organisers

Firstly our thoughts go out to the family and the man who was injured. I hope he is ok and makes a full recovery.

We have been invited to attend this event for a couple of years now. Each year it would appear a new student organises the event. I don't know who makes the decision of who manages the event though.

Each year we have said we didn't feel it safe and have kept in touch from time to time to see how changes in the rules and the arena were going. We told the organisers many times that our robots and any spinners would not be safe to run in their arena and why and they insisted safety is their main concern. I sent them a video of Predator (as a 13kg bot) to show them what our machines were like. The first year they told me they would be adding a roof and would confirm the screen specifications later once they had decided what was required. They didn't add a roof. For the second year they said it was very likely to add a roof for the upcoming event. A few months ago they finally said that our robots wouldn't be able to come as the arena would not be up to the specification required.

It is such a shame this has happened and I don't think its correct to point the blame at someone especially as its unclear how the event is run and who by. If it was a uni run project who commissioned/oversaw it and who was responsible for safety and risk assessments.

Don't forget it wasn't that long ago some of the events in the UK and US were questionable. Net roofs, No roofs and people in the arena with live robots. Fortunately safety really stepped up in 06 however it is important to keep on top of things like tech checks, cradles and arming up as it only takes 1 slip of the mind or a bit of complacency for something to happen. Next time your at any event please do help the EO's and bear this in mind. Also if you think there is something we should be looking into please bring it up.

I agree with Dave on this one. Safety culture is doesn't exist as far as I can tell. Offer guidance by all means but that's about all you can do.

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Just read the article... ACRYLIC! Its made of Acrylic! And they are meant to be engineers! (That said the panel would have shattered if it was so its probably 5mm Polybarb.)

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Have looked at a couple of pictures and videos. I reckon the piece that hit the driver went through a gap where there was no screening on it - not sure what it was for, maybe the space for umbilical cords to pass through, as a lot of those robots have.

And pretty sure you are right with acrylic. In the video at the start of this thread, a split second after the driver gets hit, look at the bottom front corner of the arena. Another part of the bar smashes through the acrylic towards the crowd. It doesn't appear to be travelling quite as fast, which is fortunate or there could have been more than one injury from this fight.