Help/Questions/Build thread

so I guess you get newbies like me asking stupid questions all the time, so I apologise in advance for saying stupid things.
anyway I've been a fan of the show my whole life, and then continued to follow it through roaming robots last year, and after all this time I've decided I could build a featherweight! I've looked into everything but I still have ALOT of questions. so here they are:

Q: is there a age limit to be a driver/controller in a event/tournament, I'm 15 and I would probably be at the controls. hopefully that's all okay?

Q:What are the size ranges for a featherweight? I've seen weights for the robots but what are the regular sizes/recommended sizes for a bot of the type.

Q: Can you outline all the key parts and things i need? i think i know the key components and everything but expert confirmation would be nice.

Q: Type of robot? I've gone for a pushy robot with a low centre of gravity, simple i know, but for a beginner I'm guessing it was a logical choice because of me have no-very limited knowledge and experience, is this a good choice or should i reach out further?

Q: Events? I know the featherweight championships are held at the Gadget show Live (i think so anyway :s) but have no idea whether the same is happening in 2014, and if so can anyone enter/ how do enter etc..

thanks for your time and sorry it's so long. hopefully with your generosity and advise can help me build an epic robot which in turn shall persuade my granddad and his Friend (master electrician and master engineer were going to build a heavyweight robot last year but didn't do it) to help me build a even better robot!!
Puca

Hiya Liam, welcome to the forum.

No age limit on drivers/builders.
Feather size is a tricky one as it always be a very personal thing, they range so much. As small as you can make it is a good rule, but don't needlessly compact the robot, making it hard to wire up, work on or repair. I'd say 500mm square is the maximum you want to be, preferably about 400 square or even less.
You'll need a transmitter and receiver, a speed controller, at least two motors, a battery (charger), link and LED alongside wheels and a frame. With more detail on your budget and skill level (do you want plug and play etc) some components could be suggested, or you can read lots of forum posts and try and learn what parts are common yourself.
I'd say build your push bot for now, but maybes leave space for a lifter or something once you are more confident.
FW champs haven't been announced yet I don't think, so signups don't exist. The champs would be a very tough test for a first machine but if you are willing to go for it, do. It would be worth going to a Robots Live or Roaming robots type even first, as you can have a more relaxed look at some other machines and ask questions, and enter a feather into the whiteboard fights.

Others can say more and better. Don't be afraid to ask questions, just try not to make them ones that can be answered with a quick google etc.

Good luck with your robot.
Harry

Hiya, welcome to the sport! Think that's a wall of text?... :)

- There is no age limit for anything.

- At the extreme ends of featherweight sizes you might see as small as 25x25cm and as big as 60x60cm. Typical I'd say is within the 30-45cm range, both length and width. There is no one optimum size, but the more compact you can make it (whilst still being stable) the less "wasted" material and so more of the weight limit can be put into armour, etc.

- Typical for a rambot:
-Battery pack.
-Transmitter (tx) and receiver (rx).
-Electronic Speed Controllers (ESCs) which connect to the battery, receiver and drive motors. These "listen" to the receiver (being sent orders from the tx, in your hand), and proportionally dump power into the drive motors. Bit more to it than that but it's that in essence. It's crucial that the ESCs are capable of controlling the amount of power the drive motors can pull.
-Drive motors and reductions/gearboxes. Typical for first machines is units from cordless drills. There are several videos on what to do to use a cheap drill as a drive unit on YouTube.
-A way to power the receiver, which can be done with a 6v battery pack, or some speed controllers have "BECs" (battery eliminator circuits) built in which do just that, eliminate the need for a separate battery for the rx. You can buy BEC units separately too.
-Channel mixing of some sort, which means to make it so that one joystick on the transmitter controls the robot in a logical way. Some transmitters have built-in mixing, if not you can buy external units.*
-A safety link, which is nothing more than a standard connector which you can unplug (without needing tools, so it can be done instantly in case of emergency, so somewhere safe on the exterior of the robot) to deactive the robot.
-A little LED which is on whenever the link is in, so the arena marshals know when the robot is powered up.

*this is something that you don't need to worry about yet. You can be advised in detail on what to do about this later on.

I think that more or less covers that. Probably forgotten something stupid... and also probably gone into way too much detail at this point, sorry if I've just confused things. If you make a build diary you can be advised as you go on all of the above.

- a rambot as a first machine is common, yes. There's the argument that it's good to stretch yourself and try to build a simple weapon too, again standard is an electric lifter of some sort. You know what you can achieve better than anyone.

- There are events where featherweights without spinning weapons can compete in the heavyweight arena, in big FW rumbles (as I'm sure you've seen if you've attended heavyweight events) most months across the UK. The UK FW Champs will be held at the NEC in Birmingham, as far as I know, in April as per previous years. A fantastic event if you can get to it. The same folks, RoboChallenge, hold a more relaxed FW event in the Air History museum in Yeovilton around the same time, again a great event, especially for newcomers.


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Sorry for the big wall of words, and yes don't fret too much about the detail just yet. If you post what you intend to buy before you do then you'll be steered in the right direction if something wrong.

Other than that, good luck, get stuck in, and I look forward to whatever you make!

Ellis

edit: oh, Harry got in there already. I probably just repeated what he said.

Q: is there a age limit to be a driver/controller in a event/tournament, I'm 15 and I would probably be at the controls. hopefully that's all okay?

A: As long as your responsible and understand the rules, then you should be fine. Try to have a adult with you though, if anything for a second opinion on whatever you do.

Q:What are the size ranges for a featherweight? I've seen weights for the robots but what are the regular sizes/recommended sizes for a bot of the type.

A: However big or small you want it within weight really. Best thing to do if you want to get scientific, is get all your components and weigh them. What weight you have left, find the density of the material you wish to use. Mass = Density x Volume. The volume can be used to find the maximum possible size, but always go smaller (also remember its not a solid object).

Remember, it doesnt have to be on the weight limit. Its your first bot, give yourself some room.

Q: Can you outline all the key parts and things i need? i think i know the key components and everything but expert confirmation would be nice.

This is a list of everything electrical (that a rambot would need) i bought for my new feather "Utopia"

Receiver
Battery
Battery Charger
Speed Controller
Wires
LED's

I also already had these which you will need

Transmitter
Motors
Wheels

You will also as harry said need a link, thus i am about to go on ebay.

Q: Type of robot? I've gone for a pushy robot with a low centre of gravity, simple i know, but for a beginner I'm guessing it was a logical choice because of me have no-very limited knowledge and experience, is this a good choice or should i reach out further?

A: Pushy robots a good start, and can be very powerful. 2010 Uk champion was a pushy robot with 2 wheels. Richochet is a 6 wheeled Rambot (thats what the pushy robots are called), which has very powerful drive and surprises alot of people. Also my first robot is a massive 4 wheeled rambot called 489.

They are also the most basic of robots to build and operate generally, you will learn alot from it.

Q: Events? I know the featherweight championships are held at the Gadget show Live (i think so anyway :s) but have no idea whether the same is happening in 2014, and if so can anyone enter/ how do enter etc..

A: I wouldnt enter the UK champs as a first go. Robot Wars and Robots Live do featherweight whiteboards, and you can ask others if they think its ready once its been built to enter the uk champs.

There is links to each companies website on the homepage of the FRA. You can also look for them on facebook (look at the company websites for links) for updates and also to ask other roboteers in a more casual way on there.

Thanks everyone for Your expert advise, I think a Rambot will be my choice, even though I do feel always up the challenge of something out of my comfort zone. We'll just have to see how things weigh out.
It's great I now know about the other events/tournaments, the UK championships looked awesome, but the number of Rambots I've seen been completely torn to pieces by spinners kinda made me weary that my bot would get destroyed in its first fight!!
i just have one more question:

Q: price ranges? Someone else on another website said 150-1500 which is pretty vague, looking more into the 400-600 range for an average robot of the size (that may be completely wrong again) which I'm fine with, as I'm willing to work hard to earn the money as all the other work is coming from the internet! :D

thanks again everyone, soon I can start working on some proper designs for it...

Your price will depend entirely on the materials you use, and the components you select.

£400-£600 would be a reasonable starting budget. For a rambot the cheapest ive seen it done was out of wood with drill motors and so on. That was around £100. Whatever you wan to do with it, it should not go over £1000. Shouldnt even get close to that tbh, but if you have £1000 then that would let you buy spares and make the body out of a cheaper material first to get the shape you want.

But really, the price is entirely up to you, and im sure others could tell you what you can get for about £500 if that was your budget

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Garfie489

£400-£600 would be a reasonable starting budget. For a rambot the cheapest ive seen it done was out of wood with drill motors and so on. That was around £100. Whatever you wan to do with it, it should not go over £1000. Shouldnt even get close to that tbh, but if you have £1000 then that would let you buy spares and make the body out of a cheaper material first to get the shape you want.

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so if you were me, would you save around 500??

If I was to rebuild Satanix from scratch with the parts I have, it would be about £600 with the charger and TX included. 117 of that was the chassis that someone else made for me, and my electronics are a tad overkill (I've got bigger than average motors in mine). You could quite comfortably make a weaponed, drill motor powered FW with the charging and radio gear inside £600 :)

As Dave said £600 is more realistic, but it depends so much on how willing you are to spend. If you plan to come along to alot of events your best off getting some expensive stuff for a high start up, but low running costs. If your only coming to a few you may spend less initially, but as things fail be prepared to replace them.

Thats not to say all the expensive stuff is better, but try to get a wish list of components and a design then price it up from there. Whatever your budget is, be prepared to spend more.

Thanks everyone for all the support so far, I'm completely overwhelmed by the help. I'm guessing the first step towards production is working out everything I need to build up a price, size and weight idea then creating some basic plans which I should be fine with.

We could just about build Tormenta 2 from scratch with a £600 budget. It has 4 wheel drive, an active fast-moving electric lifter/flipper, and a thick plastic chassis. However it was our second machine, so the money was spent more efficiently than if we had attempted the design for our first robot.

A budget of £500 will get you by nicely. If you have access to basic tools and some scrap you could potentially halve that.

You might want to consider putting a little less into your first machine, as even if it doesn't get badly damaged, you'll probably want to rebuild fairly soon anyway. It's just how we all seem to work. That doesn't mean it can't be solid, if you know someone who can weld, mild steel is cheap, or free if it's otherwise scrap, and if thick enough you can make something that will comfortably take the hits.

I'd try to get to the UK champs, because you will learn at an immense rate. The rumbles at HW events are fun, and they will be a good electronic shakedown, but they won't tell you a lot about any major design/mechanical issues. And the chances of a spinner destroying your machine to the point where nothing is salvageable is... well it doesn't happen anymore. The whole front end of our first machine got obliterated by the later crowned '12 champ, but the only broken electrical component directly caused by the attack was the loss of a few AAA batteries. Unlike in RW days, where continuing to smash a dead robot was the norm for good TV, that doesn't happen now; the driver of the robot doing the damage will stop attacking once your machine stops, and that's that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ellis

You might want to consider putting a little less into your first machine, as even if it doesn't get badly damaged, you'll probably want to rebuild fairly soon anyway. It's just how we all seem to work. That doesn't mean it can't be solid, if you know someone who can weld, mild steel is cheap, or free if it's otherwise scrap, and if thick enough you can make something that will comfortably take the hits.

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lol i can vouch for that, i notice various issues in the design which i think i have corrected in my second version but i could have easily fixed my first bot

So build a slightly cheaper robot, see where you go wrong in fights and improve upon what was bad? Like a trial and error process?

Yes. Robot combat is all one big never ending game of trial and error. Which is what makes it fun and keeps people interested for so long.

well i would say put you money on the internals esc, motors etc as its generally the chassis you will end up changing

If you can use ebay, a hammer and bodge with the best of us under £200 notes should be easy ,
2x cheap model car batts
planet 5 radio
2 argos drills or even gimsons
2 self hacked tz85
sheet 12/16mm hdpe from direct plastics
bits and bobs wheels etc from rs


trawl though all the build threads, look for any with a paper clip next to them for photos

all the best hope to meet you at an event soon

Guten tag! Welcome to the site! As others have said, build summat cheap and get to the RobotsLive / Roaming Robot events. you'll learn loads. I just got back to building feather number 2 after the first one got badly damaged at it's first event haha. It's common practise to build a drill powered rammer. It involves a couple of cheap drills from argos, cheap speedo and a couple of tamiya 7.2V batteries taped together. You can even get a cheap radio set for 25 notes. Build a basic body (plastic, wood, steel, ally all commonly used) and chuck your running gear in. I came back with my electrics intact so they're going into number 2. I think it's like anything, it's as dear as you make it. As with anything, you won't get to the moon and back on a fifty quid robot but it'll get you too some events for a laugh. I'd recommend that, and as you progress more can spend more if you want to. Just keep it simple and have a read round and remember there's no such thing as a stupid question.

Dangerous Dave

re: age limit;

When conducting tech checks I prefer the competitor to have someone over the age of 18 with you (parent etc) to sign the form of and take responsibility for your machine. Not all tech checkers implement this but I regard it as a legal document, and ask for someone over 18 to sign at the fw uk champs.

Welcome to the forum.
Dave

I built a bot from scrap parts from scratch for about £60, but it lost its only fight. Against a DVD player.
It all depends on your technical expertise - if you're good with building, you'll be able to build a very sturdy machine at a fraction of the cost, and if you're not at all skilled like me, you'll probably need to spend a bit more on it to get it about right. The most expensive components usually though are the electronics, but again, it depends what stuff you buy - my hacked 85A ESCs from Botbitz are exceptional, but cost £100, you can buy them for much cheaper elsewhere, but the quality or amp rating might be lower for example. Brushless drive systems are also starting to get a bit of usage from what I've heard - I'm experimenting with a few setups and I'm led to believe there's a few actually in use, but they're not widely used as of yet I don't think.

You mentioned about a rambot, and their strengths are all to do with their toughness and sheer pushing power, so to excel to that, I'd suggest getting 4 drill motors for 4 wheel drive, and the strongest armour you can find, especially for some kind of shovel at the front.
The smaller you can get it, the better too - get as close to the 13.6kg weight limit as you can, but having a huge robot means you'll have to spread the armour more thinly to cover everything. If your robot is half the size, you can have armour twice as thick and that'll help keep the spinners out!

I'd suggest going the cheaper route and using whatever scrap you can find to make the chassis out of etc. just to keep costs down, then you can learn by going to events and fighting, making improvements on top of that and of course have a bit of a cheap thrill! Well, comparatively cheap anyway. Do plan though, planning it out beforehand is a good first step!