Tin Pot Challenge Cup

Hi guys
This is a developed idea that I had a while ago, and by a while ago I mean 13 years ago, when me and 3 friends challenged each other to build a robot for less than £50, the variation we had was great, I built (or rather rebuilt) my first robot which was a Biohazard clone that weighed 2 KG and was made from old steel shelves, had electric screwdrivers for drive and for driving the weapon. Two were RC cars, one with a bicycle helmet on top covered in nails, the other was 2 RC cars cut in half and stuck together and a wedge put on top, and the last was what we now call an axelbot one large wheels and a end a lump hammer like the Saint or stinger.
We did a sprint race (which I lost miserably), a gauntlet style course and a final melee which I finally won. To be honest I cheated I used an old robot and just spent £50 rebuilding it and one of the guys spent nearer £200.
It was a great start for all of us to get into engineering, and it got some new robots built.

What I'm proposing is not a new rule set but a new competition, with 3 phases, a game, a maze and a fight, (nothing new just like Robotica really)

So the potential rules for this idea, which will most likely change over the course of the discussion

- the usual build rules
- £150 spending limit
- Lightweight limit 13.6 - 27.5 KG
- no old or rebuilt robots
- no spinners
- no wedges (borrowed from the sportsman class)
- active weapon rule applies
- base of the robot must be no larger than 20 inches by 20 inches (approx 50cm by 50cm)

the rest is up to you guys, I'd also love for them all to be walkers but that probably won't happen.

Anyway just an idea

This sounds really good, sounds like a school contest type of thing. One question though, would people need to bring a pricing list for their bot to show it is within cost ?

yes they would

I always enjoyed the UK Robotic Games events so, time and money permitting, I'd probably give this a go. One issue I've seen flagged up with keeping track of costs is what restrictions there are. Say if we use bits we've already got in our workshops, do we count them as 'free' or do we have to assign a market value to them? And if so, what dictates a market value?

For example, I've got a Bosch 400 in my shed which I'm assuming would be £100 or so bought new. I only paid £10 for it, but do I count it as free as it's already in my supplies, state it as costing £10, or state it as costing £100?

I'd like to say common sense dictates that it's £10, but with all rules someone will always try to take them to their limits. Using Mags for drive could be 'free' if they're already sitting on a workbench somewhere :)

your bosch cost £10 so thats the cost, if you bought the mags for £10 then thats their cost, point being all parts cost a price at some point

What if I say a Mag cost me £10 but it actually cost £200? Would invoices be required? (I don't have an invoice for the Bosch, it was an eBay purchase back in 2007).

I'm not trying to pick holes in your plans, these are quite extreme examples of the case I'm illustrating. Just trying to account for situations where attempts are made to forego sporting and personal integrity in the name of gaining an advantage (nor is this directed at anyone in particular by the way, merely a general query :) )

This all falls apart as soon as people start blagging things for free :(

Only takes one person to spoil it for all (and no I don't mean it would be me!) - what would work better would be to have the robot valued, and set a limit on that. Shouldn't be hard to value the top 10 most expensive bits for any given robot and use that as a threshold.

Its a tricky one

I was thinking on limits by the types of materials e.g. I could get a chunk of titanium free (I wish) then spend a few hundred pounds on machining

Valuing anything is subjective, especially robots with a small community

Limits around motor power output , battery capacity , materials (e.g. only Al, HDPE , mild steel - nothing beyond a jigsaw and B&D workmate) would probably be needed. The downside this would exclude some dumpster finds but it has to be a simple set of regulations for people to understand and build to

Limiting things to that extent would defeat the point of people having to be creative with what they can build inside 150 quid. ^

I think the only way to do this would be to rely on people's sportsmanship and on common sense. Anyone who has two ampflows in their robot will naturally come under question and they'll either be deemed a cheat or a fair contender on the spot.

Either that or all costs should be a from-new thing...

like Ed's suggestion,
Something like the 3 most valuable parts its a great idea, if the sum of the 3 most valuable parts of your robot is more than it doesn't qualify for the competition

or we could go Scrap bots, nothing new is allowed and ditch the £150 limit

for example last night i thought of a 6 legged robot made with a polycarb frame (last 10mm poly from the Rebel Arena) legs made of 100 x 100 box section, wheelchair motors for drive, bang bang controller and some old 12v Nicads from TX-108 could put a lifter on it and bingo a scrap robot built for next to nothing,

that's my thoughts so far, keep it coming

Big Nipper is built out of scrap...

bit to heavy for the 27.5KG weight limit though

You can force the top 3 robots to be sold for the price limit, with the obbligation to enter it in the next event.

There are some car racing events like that to stop over investment in the cars. Might of even been on Top Gear at some point

Was this not what was talked about with a wooden robot class a while back? Hasn't really taken off due to the infrequency of featherweight events.

We hit several hurdles with the Wooden Robot Class.

Lack of events was the biggest, then imposing and defining limits was the next. A spend limit is a near impossible thing to regulate.

You're right though there was a mention of a Finish rally class with low cost cars.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/captain-fast

6:05 in.

All the ROBOTS in EVENT are given a nominal and equal value, let's say it's £150, then at the end of the FIGHT you can go to any other competitor and say I want to buy your ROBOT, and he or she has to sell it to you. It's to stop people spending too much money, getting sponsorship and taking it all too seriously!

Nice idea, but it Racing it's largely about Driver skill, so equal cars is a desirable thing, just look at F1. Whereas in Robots, robot design and innovation is probably the largest thing, being a good driver is just another advantage.

Personally I wouldn't want to sell my bot for £150 even if that was all the components were worth. Mainly because of the time that goes into it.
Also, why make the robots Lightweights? If they were featherweights then you could use it in main events as well and the robots would be cheaper and easier to make. People are also more likely to have spare parts for feathers lying around than Lightweights.

Why not make it a Battlerat style category (sort of like thecompetition at Brentwood). The size and weight of the robots (4kgs i believe) would surely keep costs down as the would be no room for big, expensive parts.

Featherweights used to be the start up weight class. Then it was kilobots. It doesn't take long for any weight class to become exceptionally competitive.

And yes a 4kg class could become very expensive.

I think that a lightweight class size would be best as I think feather weights are to small and restrictive, and I think all robots being built of scrap would a good idea, means people gave to use there scavageing skills (although useing stuff that had been bought for something else shouldn't count eg someone can't make it all out of that huge sheet of titanium they had lying around) just a thought

Too small and restrictive? You have every kind of design of weapon allowed in the featherweights from spinners, pneumatic and electric flippers, lifters, rammers, axes and crushers. The heavyweights are the dull weight category in comparison.

All that I can see this class ending up as would be hardox box vs hardox box. There is little point in trying to dilute down the number of machines in different weight categories. Attempts were made before to bring the lightweights and middleweights back. They were never popular during robot wars so they are unlikely to be popular in the future.

The wooden idea I liked because it was easy to understand and there was a basic rule set in place and the majority of folks in the featherweights have spares that could easily be used to throw a machine together. However lack of events did hinder it.

Machines made out of scrap?! What a most excellent idea!

Maybe the wooden robot idea isn't dead yet.

The idea is, that it's a challenge, building or entering a feather you made of scrap is a bit easy,
Lightweights offer a different challenge to a feather, you can almost use heavyweight parts in a lighter chassis or you can use beefy feather parts with a thick chassis.

Some might build fat feathers, some will build skinny middle/heavies but the idea is to build something new from something old. Remembering that wedge bots, spinners are banned and robots must have an active weapon.

I'm leaning towards the idea of scrap bots rather than price limit and I potentially have an event in late July/early august. I work abroad most of the year so would defiantly be a summer event most likely outdoors. Event will be in Burntwood Staffordshire.

As far as I'm concerned you will either be interested in participating or you won't be, either is ok it's a personal choice, I'm building my bot around Easter time.

Yeah scrap bots would be better than a price limits as price limits prevents the use of multiple expensive weapons (like pneumatics) and there could just be a ban on excessive milling and any work with CNC to prevent stupidly powered flippers and stuff. And do all spinners have to be band or could low speed, small diamiter ones be alowed? Because I would have thought that they could be used with out polycarb as they would carry little more KE and little more danger than axes and flippers?