Poll - Full Combat Competition

It's always good to get roboteers opinions and views. Your robots have been built with one thought in mind, destruction! Or have they? Many shows these days are scaled back from more of the destructive spinners and some of you want more. Whether it's taking the machine home in a bin bag or the pride of surviving a round against a high powered spinning disc some roboteers are clearly happy to put their creation against any machine. But opinions are divided and a lot of time and effort goes into the design, engineering and construction of some very unique robots. Its understanding that a few might not want to have that destroyed in a couple of minutes.

So what would you do? Should an event organiser put forward an arena to contain full combat with all weapon classes would you fight, perhaps even build a new spinner so you are not on the receiving end of the disc. Or maybe you already have a machine that give as good as it takes. Are you in it to win at whatever cost or would you stand down at the thought of total destruction?

Vote in our poll

I know this is aimed at heavyweight competitors but if I were building in that class I'd vote in the same way. I voted definitely. I nearly went for possibly, but that would suggest tapping out as an escape route before damage is caused, and for me that isn't how this fighting thing should go down.

If a machine gets or is at risk of getting irreversibly damaged then I'd have thought the builder would want to redesign in someway anyway.

And even if it were a to the death thing I think sportsmanship would prevent major major destruction.

I agree that we're building combat robots. Mechanical Gladiators. Not bumpercars or cuddly bunnies.

On the other hand, risking heavy damage , and assorted costs, I can't see most teams supporting more than 2 full combat events per robot a year.

Well I for one would be up for it. That 30kg hardox disc I had made years ago is still in my shed. Need to build a decent machine around it but I'd be up for it. Also got the disc on smidsy should I not have time to throw something together.

fight to the death :proud:

Answering a question with a question.

Why do you ask? :shock:

As no one has the funds to build that class arena for heavies anyway. unless you know something we don't.

I think the environment dictates the way robot development goes, you have no spinners and flippers rule the day.

Some people will not want to get their robots damaged badly by spinners. But it was only about 6 years ago they were banned.

I am happy to make a spinner if there were some arena to fight in.
I have always taken the damage from other robots and house robots as part of the game.

This would make for interesting fights. but the down side as previously stated because of extra damage, there may be less robots available for the next show!
And the fight duration may be only a few seconds.
How would this go with the paying public?

If the fight's only a few seconds but there's an awesome show in that time then the public will love it!

Personally I think the heavy shows are a bit dull, boxes knocking into each other with a good flip now and then. It's a bit like watching a boxing match where the fighters don't want to get heir faces hurt. But I also understand why it's that way.
There's a show to put on, later /future show, the machines are very expensive, and with no formal competition why risk damaging them?

Also with spinners being out of the mix it has seen a different pool of evolution, there's no need for protection, most are flippers etc...

Bringing them back into the mix will take time for people/robots to adjust and will most likely only work once a year at say a championship. Much like how the Americans do it.

Full combat FWs are great but I think we could do with 2 events a year one in April and one in October.

I wouldn't mind seeing more destruction in the events. Once a year, there could be a big tournament where spinners could unleash their fury uponthe arena.

I dont think funding for a spinner-proof arena would be too bothersome. Afterall, we now live in a generation of kickstarter projects and indiegogo.

I wouldn't mind bringing back the HW spinners if it was only for 1 or 2 events each year. I would probably consider going down the route of building one if this was the case (need an excuse for a much bigger Inertia :))

I feel that if this was introduced for every event we would end up with fewer robots being able to compete after getting wrecked in the first fight which would not benefit the audience or the roboteers having to repair them each time.

With the featherweights for example I have both a full combat machine as well as one for normal events. If HW spinners were reintroduced I would more likely follow suit.

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Originally Posted by Silent Night

I wouldn't mind seeing more destruction in the events. Once a year, there could be a big tournament where spinners could unleash their fury uponthe arena.

I dont think funding for a spinner-proof arena would be too bothersome. Afterall, we now live in a generation of kickstarter projects and indiegogo.

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Oh wow, those sites hadn't occurred to me! With a single UK-based well known YouTuber (or several smaller ones) it's definitely a potential. I highly doubt it would cover all costs but it would be a boost worth having.

People adored Robot Wars. If people get the idea their donations can bring a similar thing back I can see how it might turn into something big.

there is only 1 reason i built it out of wood.
FIGHT TO THE DEATH!
:twisted:

I know this doesn't yet apply to me but in a few years time if I built a heavyweight or featherweight (i can't now or anytime seening as i don't have the funds nor the experiance) and it got smashed to pieces by a spinner then it could cost hundreds of pounds to get it repaired (if it wasn't beyond repair). I know I only have antweights at the minute (and i know that there are antweight spinners but not at RR or RL) but if spinners were aloud back then it would discourage me to build a feather or a heavy purely because of the repair cost.

Well, I'm not the biggest fan of full combat but I did put Possibly as I know Dave & Will are.

It is said that sportsmanship would stop unnecessary damage but that precludes everyone is a sportsman rather than a damage obsessed showboater. I'm worried with no 'ref bot' there, the spinners won't stop attacking long enough to start a countdown.

A majority seems to be working on the assumption that if HW spinners come along, every existing non-spinner heavyweight is going to get smashed to bits. Verging on mild hysteria at the mention of the 'S' word.

Seeing as most of the current HWs are stupidly powerful flippers, I reckon there's more of a chance of a spinner getting chucked out or damaged by a flip before it causes any significant damage to its opponent. Plus, since heavyweight have gotten smaller and their armour thicker, I reckon a spinner is more likely to defeat a flipper/box/other through knocking an internal connection loose than by ripping them to shreds.

I'm not a fan of tapping out; it seems a very American thing and not particularly in the spirit of the game. However I do think sportsmanship has an important role. I like to work on the principle (that I picked up from someone else) that if you're still moving, you're still a target to my machine and I will continue to fight until that is not the case (unless asked otherwise). But once you've stopped moving, there's no need to continue bashing you with a rotating lump of metal so you won't sustain unnecessary damage.

Definetly not. If heavyweight spinners were allowed back they would upgrade as the feather spinners have done and find a way of completely destroying other heavies. It's bad enough repairing a £500 feather once a year, so we don't want to be in the position of repairing a £3000 ten times a year, then to get it destroyed again at the next event. As for the heavies being well armoured. Several feather spinners have torn straight through our 3mm Hardox, so I can't see a heavy spinner having much trouble tearing up a 4mm Hardox shell.

Due to the nature of the heavy events, and due to the the fact that some events are so close together (often two-weekends back to back), I don't think there are enough heavies to start damaging them with spinners, not to mention the fact that not many people are going to want to go in with a spinner in whiteboard. Besides, I can't see this happening any time soon unless there's something we're not being told :P

This thread been started to liven up the forum because it's pretty dull now, or does it have a purpose?

Fw full combat works well.

Hw drivers are all whimps scared to get a squeeze of Tiberius, and won't even fight that... Let alone a spinner. Won't work... Heavyweights are dead IMO I won't build another one to just end up fighting other flippers... Part the fun is being woried all your hard works going to get smushed... Then more fun re-building it.

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Originally Posted by k_c_r

A majority seems to be working on the assumption that if HW spinners come along, every existing non-spinner heavyweight is going to get smashed to bits. Verging on mild hysteria at the mention of the 'S' word.

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If a spinner comes by, a spinner comes by. If that spinner wins fair and square. Fine.
But don't expect me to participate in a lot of events a year. The mortgage won't wait because a robot got trashed.

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Seeing as most of the current HWs are stupidly powerful flippers, I reckon there's more of a chance of a spinner getting chucked out or damaged by a flip before it causes any significant damage to its opponent. Plus, since heavyweight have gotten smaller and their armour thicker, I reckon a spinner is more likely to defeat a flipper/box/other through knocking an internal connection loose than by ripping them to shreds

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Even being ripped to shreds isn't a garanty to losing. Example. Bigger Brother vs Hypnodisk- series . The on site rebuild of Bigger Brother ws a part of the fun. Also, who wasn't feeling sympathy for Splinter in the fight against the same Hypodisk a series earlier?
Other examples. Gravity Vs 13 Black and Tough as Nails Vs Disc-O-Inferno (4 way melee) - both series 7 fights.

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I'm not a fan of tapping out; it seems a very American thing and not particularly in the spirit of the game. However I do think sportsmanship has an important role. I like to work on the principle (that I picked up from someone else) that if you're still moving, you're still a target to my machine and I will continue to fight until that is not the case (unless asked otherwise). But once you've stopped moving, there's no need to continue bashing you with a rotating lump of metal so you won't sustain unnecessary damage.

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Over here we have another option. Drive into the pit. Would you chase an opponent into the pit?

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Originally Posted by mr_turbulence

This thread been started to liven up the forum because it's pretty dull now, or does it have a purpose?

Fw full combat works well.

Hw drivers are all whimps scared to get a squeeze of Tiberius, and won't even fight that... Let alone a spinner. Won't work... Heavyweights are dead IMO I won't build another one to just end up fighting other flippers... Part the fun is being woried all your hard works going to get smushed... Then more fun re-building it.

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There is a simple trick to avoid damage from Tiberius. As shown on TV.

Also, building a BonX alike on heavy scale ain't a real challenge. Get some Hardox 550, shape it so crushers glance off, and you're almost bulletproof inside a reasonable budget. The real money will be in the option Turtle or Hare.

Simply put.
1) Adapt or die
2) If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Problem is, without people working in the kitchen, there ain't nothing.

Bring it on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We will fight anyone .........Tiberius regularly gets draw against us ........

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I wouldn't mind full combat and also don't care if I'm fighting Tiberius either, the robot was built to fight .
What's the bloody point in going to events just to winge and pull put of fights .

I fear this is a pointless discussion, or is there something big coming?
No body is going to build a class 1 arena unless it's for tv. There just isn't the money to do it and make it viable.

Spinners have been discussed to death and when we had them at wicksteed park most broke, and there wasn't really any damage.

The current level of robots would easy beat the spinners as it would take a fair few years to develop like has happened in the fw class before they became a problem.

I built ripper to fight not to play, I'm looking forward to fighting tiberious if it regularily comes to events now it's changed hands, it's something new to develop techniques to beat !!

I agree with others who have said that an arena that can contain spinners is unlikely to appear. But if it does I'll provide something to fight in it. Bring it on!

I know I'm from the US but I think seeing spinners back in the UK would be cool. I know at least one person that wouldn't be happy though XD

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Originally Posted by mr_turbulence

This thread been started to liven up the forum because it's pretty dull now, or does it have a purpose?

Fw full combat works well.

Hw drivers are all whimps scared to get a squeeze of Tiberius, and won't even fight that... Let alone a spinner. Won't work... Heavyweights are dead IMO I won't build another one to just end up fighting other flippers... Part the fun is being woried all your hard works going to get smushed... Then more fun re-building it.

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Very true, At the last event we took Tiberius to its name was rubbed off the white board twice because the other roboteers in the fight were scared to fight it and then twice the other roboteers that were supposed to be in the fight rubbed there own names out and put their names into other fights to avoid fighting Tiberius. Its pretty pathetic to be honest, Basically the heavyweights are never going to evolve. They havent even evolved from the robot wars days, if anything they have done the opposite. Some of the people with flippers think its ok for them to build more and more powerful flippers to throw other robots out of the arena that can easily cause alot of damage to the internals of a robot but they dont want to fight anything that might damage them. Doesnt seem very fair to me. Luckily John was willing to fight us with Ripper, and Team tilly were great sports and just took the damage. All they had to do was say stop and we would have let go.
Id be well up for it. And if people start complaining about how much its going to cost to repair your robot after each fight. Theres a simple solution, build a better robot. If you spent time and effort building a robot that could take the damage you wouldnt have to repair it all the time.

I would never trade off the fear in your gut, that you might take home your Robot in a bag! The fun is in the building and development of them. So it's got to be full combat, no excuses

Personally I wouldn't want to compete in a full combat event these days. Should we take damage then the repair cost or repair time will limit the already limited time we have available to play with our robot - I'd prefer to be mucking around in the arena rather than spending my evenings in the workshop.

If you're into RW full time then fair enough but as a part timer I can't really say I'm interested in meeting spinners anymore. Crushers and axe bots have some level of control on the damage they can apply but I don't think the same can be said for spinners. In the past HW spinners, in my opinion, didn't take much effort to cause a lot of damage :uhoh: - all they needed was one touch or a glancing contact - hence why they were so effective.

Unless you've got something to prove or there is some level of prize money to be won then why risk the time and expence of taking major damage?

Well, Everybody knows why i do robots... to Win, but to win in an entertaining way. Thats why i try and keep the UK champs going.

Not that i cant take losing, more if theres a robot out there which i fear, i need to improve my robot.

I enjoy rebuilding Ripper, i enjoy making improvements, i do it all the time, i havent changed it over the summer as its working the best its ever worked, but i keep looking at it and thinking what can I do to improve it, the only thing i need to do before swansea is straighten the pannels from tiberious. :proud:

No one would fight tiberious, i felt sorry for the guys, why have a machine that you cant fight people, i have respect for them that if i think they are going too far or i say stop they will stop, the same as if they are stuck i freed them. It was a play event.

I'll fight anyone, and if my robot comes out trashed ill go away and rebuild it, the only bits im protective over are the expensive bits.

im looking forward to fighting tiberious more and more because it is a robot i fear, but i have a plan :angry:

Spinners, most machines will take the hits these days, id take on spinners and take the damage and go away and repair it, its my hobby. if you dont have time or the inclanation to repair or improve your robot theres nothing wrong with that at all. People are different and do our hobby for different reasons.

I really want to go over the pond, and if i could afford it i would, and i know a few others are itching to go there too to fight the spinners. Robot Wars is about the adrenelin rush, and spinners bring that , thats why the fw are so popular!

Kane if there is a spinner arena coming, theres enough of us who will fight them, and ill guarantee 50% of us would go and build a spinner in addition to our nromal robots because we can.

John
www.RoamingRobots.co.uk

You should always have an option to tap out. Just like in boxing to prevent further damage if you are losing anyway there is an option to throw the towel in the ring. There is no shame in that, it is a purely economic decision to make. When I tapped out that the European champs raptor competition that was because Nebelwerfer was already dead and the next hit from the Finnnish machine would have been straight in my speed controller. The cost of something like that happening in a heavyweight would have been a factor 4 higher even, so there has to be an option to tap out if things get too costly or I will not compete. I don't mind if things get destroyed in a straight up fight, but when a robot is already dead or immobile, there is no need to kick it when it is down.

Good point about Tapping out, the Americans facilitate this well by having buttons for each team, press when ready to start and again when/if you tap out. Makes sense with so many spinners about.
(This may have been a Battlebots only thing, but they still have a ref on each team by the looks of it at RoboGames.)

John also makes a good point about having a split opinion, that's ok!
Some people want to fight spinners, some don't. Like wise we shouldn't dispell the idea completely or force people to fight them.

I can understand people taping out and would always defend that stand.

As far as Team Saint is concerned we do not have a tap out policy! Which is why the first Gabriel robot called Tron 2 went in with LS4. it came out in bits and cost several hundreds of pounds damage in fact apart from the speedo (which was dented) and a few small bits it was a complete write off. My only regret is the fight didn't last longer.

Tiberius can fight my robots any time, (and have done in the past) I don't rub out my name for Kan openers, Tiberius, Thor, THz or anyone else.
I am surprised anyone rubbed out Tib's name I wasn't aware of this happening. If you whant a fight guys put Saint's name down any time :mrgreen:

Again I am not saying taping out is bad it's not the way I see robot combat being done for me.

Jonno if you get a gang going to USA for a dust up! Count Team Saint in.

tom you are propably refering to leeds when you say your name was rubbed out, i was under the ussumption tiberius pulled out against toon raider, eruption and toxic and wondered why.
isn't that what happened ?

We have fought Tiberious in the past and lost motors,gearboxes and a speed controller.Would Alex fight it again? I seriously hope he would.We are one of the teams Jonno has mentioned about going out to Robo Games in the future ( cashflow permitting) so we certainly arn't running away from spinners.
In my opinon Toon Raider is a fighting robot, and not an ornament. Just watch me at the Featherweight Champs to understand my take on full combat events :proud:

it´s robotwars ... we are not playing chess ... :wink: so for me : Full contact and no backing out ...
If Tiberius is in Maidstone Hades will be happy to fight ... :roll:

And if you´re going to robogames ; Count me in !!!

I know I am new to the game but I think we have missed something here...

Because RW was a TV show, Mentorn pushed and encouraged teams to destroy each other. Now, without the pressure of TV, there is no reason to say that if someone wants to pullout they can't.

I am personally of the view that we are here to fight, no matter that cost. My fight against NST cost me most of my robot and around £500 and yet I would not hesitate to enter the arena should I be drawn against NST again. Its about the redesign, the improvements, the development and design of the machines as much as it is the fighting. I can't wait for the day I am able to return the favour to sam and beat him fair and square and If I loose half a robot in the process then the design clearly was not good enough. :lol: Sam asked me after the fight why I stopped and then decided to start again - simple, the robot could still drive so I could still win the fight!

When it comes to the Heavies, it is rather dull. :| All the flippers seem to be built from the same blueprint and all the interesting machines like Kan-opener, thor and Tiberius are feared for the damage they might cause. If you took one of our heavies to the US for robo-games and it was drawn against Sewer-snake with its flame thrower or even worse Last Rights what would you do?

But as many people have pointed out, without a Class 1 heavyweight arena this is all obsolete. If someone is secretly building a new Heavyweight arena, PLEASE TELL ME! I want an excuse to make a heavyweight Conker, something that could take on Last Rights and win!

Call me cowardly, but I'm largely here for fun & entertainment. I can't do any of those with no working robot.

Not really the spinners I fear - it's the owners. I'm not using up all my limited resources & holiday to get trashed as a chew toy for an ingallant spinner owner with an Hypnodisc fixation.

One way to go to Robogames on a budget is to build a 60 lb machine. [They don't have feathers, 60 lbs is the smallest in the main arena]. That way you can take it on the plane as a single suitcase, stripped down a bit to make the 50 lb weight limit for a single suitcase, and carry a second suitcase with the bits you took off, tools etc. That's what I did this year and it all made it in two suitcases along with several 1 lb and 3 lb machines for the little arena. Or take two feathers and fight them as a cluster against a 60 lb machine. There is no requirement for a cluster to enter the arena as a single machine.

John, see your point but, if I'm
Going I'm going with ripper to properly represent the uk with some style :-)

I'm sure if we were to plan to turn up with 10 featherweights, Robo games would at least have a rethink on the category.

Like the clusterbot idea though.

I can imagine a couple of UK FW machines taking on a LW successfully. Imagine LS4 and NST teaming up :s