How Could I Improve...

€œjust because a vehicle has a top speed of 100+ mph doesnt mean it has to drive at top speed all the time€ - Yes, that is true about vehicles, but since when were vapourbots even remotely similar to vehicles? They don€™t have accelerators, they don€™t have gears, and they don€™t have breaks€¦ we cannot control how fast they go to the same effect. If you never intend to drive at this top speed, why is it there?

Skirts€¦ just some thin 3mm Titanium or something. Skirts are something I€™m cutting down on, as they never work, use up weight and just provide more things for spinners to rip off. 10mm Steel bars sounds okay, but what about that on the base plate?

€œBy the use of a switch on the controller€ - what does this switch actually do? :lame:

Aaron pretty much hit the nail on the head, the gear change probably wouldn€™t work, and what is its purpose anyway? Nice idea, but ineffective.

Presented for your approval, since I mentioned how there was a decline in axes then realised I dont have one yet...

Name pending
WEIGHT: 100kgs
DIMENSIONS: 95 x 55 x 30 cm
SHAPE: Box with wedge, only the wedge is in two sections making something of a shallow plow shape.
COLOUR: Pending. will probably involve yellow and chevrons in some way
DRIVE: 4 24v DeWalt drill motors driving 4 wheels running off 6 6v NiCd packs. Normally 4 of these are used giving 24v, but an R/C switch can switch on all 6 packs at 36v giving extra speed and power for short periods. (this is the bit Im worried about, I dont know if the DeWalts are powerful enough or if they would survive 36v)
SPEED: 15mph average, 25mph under 36v boost
GROUND CLEARANCE: Wheels can be pneumatically raised/lowered (using a compressed air system seperate from the axe pneumatics) to give a minimum of 0 all around (this grounds it however) with a maximum of 50mm clearance, but normally has 5mm with 0 at the tip of the body.
ARMOUR: 4mm hardox front, sides and rear with 3mm titanium and 4mm polycarbonate on the top and 3mm aluminium base.
WEAPONS: Pneumatic axe on the front, running from a rack and pinion system and 2 2.5kg CO2 tanks giving about 40 hits in a match. The axe head is shaped similarly to Shunts but is tungsten tipped, weighs 5kg and can punch through 6mm titanium and dent hardox. Also has a big spike on the back.
SRIMECH: Via the weapon, which should be powerful enough to pull it over if it gets stranded on its sides.
NOTES: Base is coated with silicone rubber sheet to make it more difficult to push when in sit down mode. Internal components shock mounted for protection.
STRENGTHS: Very difficult to push or flip, good pushing power and weapon
WEAKNESSES: Armour could be better, raising/lowering system takes a second or so to work

Forgot to add, the axe shaft is steel and about 70cm long.

*kicks editing time*

yea dewalts would survive 36v but need the bursh housing remaking to cope with the higher tempreture hands up whos done it :)

Scrap the gearing on the axe

The usual mod for running the Dewalt 24v Hammer drills on 36v is the Dustin Mod. Basically they replace the bell housing and a few other bits and it allows them to run a bit longer before exploding... Also, Im not too sure how well they will go in a HW... You might want to consider a pair of S28-400 Magmotors @ 24v. Slightly heavier, but less space and more reliable.

Are S28-400 MagMotors really the best DC motors on the market for heavyweights today?

Its really hard to class any motor as the best... It all depends on design and application. I prefer the S28-400 Magmotors over the LEM130s, because of the lower current draw, they are only 75mm in diameter, which means you can make robots 100mm tall (allowing 50% more side armour for the same weight!), instead of 150+mm with the LEM130s. Plus you need a stack more batteries and voltage to get the power out of the LEM130s.

Check these videos out.

Sewer Snake (S28-400s) VS Karkas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmTgmvb95bAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmTgmvb95bA
Storm 2 (LEM130s) VS Mute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvlT2wMDSU8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvlT2wMDSU8

Who had more control and more push?

It was actually a middleweight design I had that I upscaled a bit, hence the Dewalts...if I had the Mags instead, would I still be able to use the 36v for short periods or would I have to scrap that?

I used Dewalts on 36v for a version of one of my robots (Heavyweight) so they can handle it,

S28 or LEM130? Dont confuse speed for power, Storm has more kinetic energy than Sewer Snake, SS bounces alot more than storm as well, there both good robots but its not about power in the motors its about the traction in the drive, Ive seen storm been out pushed by Terrorhurtz which has 24v Bosches
The best value motor in my opinion is the 24v Bosch GPA,

Example, Tanto V3 had eteks on 5:1 and it was slow top speed but plenty of torque literally nothing could out push it, Tanto v4 has Eteks on 3:1 ratio, its much quicker and the gearbox has more torque however its had less pushing power, i got the speed i wanted but lost the power that has in the past beaten Tornado

I agree with Craig, I would prefer the GPA over any mag or Lem any time.

Kan-opener won the tug of war with 2 Boshes.

Are S28-400 Magmotors the best on the market for real robots, Id say no because of their price. Are S28-400 Magmotors the best available for vapourbots, Id say yes by a long way. They are smaller and lighter than their competitors, require less in terms of batteries and are still very powerful.

Bosch 750w: 24v, 1hp, 3.8kg
S28-400 Mag: 24v, 4.5hp, 3.1kg
LEM 130: 24v, 1hp?, 3kg

The reality is that vapourbots are very different to real robots. Where in reality things like better traction, better drivers, lower wedges and so on all come into play, we seem to base pushing abilities on motor stats. In which case, the S28-400 is the best all round motor for this purpose. But this is just my opinion. :)

2 x S28-150 Mag: 24v, 6hp, 3.6kg
2 x dustins: 36v, 4.4hp, 3kg
2 x astro 90s: 24V, 4hp, 1.8kg
4 x astro 40s: 24v, 4hp, 1.4kg

There are alternatives.
Im not sure the belief that 36v of batteriss weighs more than 24v is entirely true. For the same power output, the higher voltage setup will draw less current, use lighter wires and a lighter speed controller. It could even be the same size and number of cells just arranged differently. Most of the high performance motors benefit a lot from running at higher voltages: http://www.robotbooks.com/magmotor_tips.htmhttp://www.robotbooks.com/magmotor_tips.htm,

Also, Bosch 750w are actually about 1.5hp peak.

they don€™t have breaks€¦ we cannot control how fast they go to the same effect
What do speed controllers do then? :mrgreen:

Its a bit more difficult to gauge and control the speed of something when youre about ten metres away holding a transmitter, as opposed to sitting on it with a steering wheel.

Admittedly, if you could do that it would make life easier because thered be a lot less spinners around :proud:

quote:

Im not sure the belief that 36v of batteriss weighs more than 24v is entirely true. For the same power output, the higher voltage setup will draw less current, use lighter wires and a lighter speed controller. It could even be the same size and number of cells just arranged differently.

The key words there are same power output. Unless your current limiting the motors to provide the same output at the higher voltage, the motors are going to draw more power due to the higher voltage.

quote:

2 x S28-150 Mag: 24v, 6hp, 3.6kg
2 x dustins: 36v, 4.4hp, 3kg
2 x astro 90s: 24V, 4hp, 1.8kg
4 x astro 40s: 24v, 4hp, 1.4kg

The alternatives are definitely there, but a lot of them are really only alternatives on paper. I know I wouldnt put any Astro 40s in a heavyweight, simply because they are too small, I had a pair of these a while back and with some testing, they heat up real quick. Ive seen a few FW smoke these on weapons (Typhoon Cadet @ RoboGames?).

Team Whyachi have had some success using the Astro 90s for drives in HWs, but rarely do these bots do any form of pushing. Last bot was Warrior SKF and they used 4 of them.

Dustins are the same as the astros, brilliant motors for the lighter classes, but still get toasty. Craig, you ran a set in your heavy weight, was the top speed and did it do any pushing?

The S28-150s I do see working, the main thing they have over the other motors is more thermal mass. Id still prefer to use a 400 though. Im trying to think of who did testing of S28-150s as drive motors and said they would never use them in a HW again...

Entirely my own opinion based on what Ive seen over the years. Happy to be proven wrong :proud:

no push what so ever, could get 8mph yea they got really hot, i know another guy who ran dewalts and stripped the gearboxes

Confirms my thoughts then :proud: Aussie featherweight King Cobra nearly gets his 18v Dewalts glowing on an 8cell pack of A123s :proud:

So the message is Go for the Mags?

Heres another one. Thanks to Kody again. Let me know if you think it needs improving please.

Name: Secret

Shape: Very low invertible box.

Colour: Body cyan, skirts light green, disc white with grey teeth.

Speed: 12mph

Weight: 100kg

Armour: 7mm titanium, 5mm titanium skirts

Drive: 2 S28-400 MagMotors running on 24 volts

Power: 4 NiCad Battlepacks running on 24 volts

Motivation: 2 wheel drive, Vulkalon rubber on the wheels for traction

Ground Clearance: 5mm under side and rear skirts.

Turning Circle: 0

Dimensions: 105cm x 70cm x 10cm

Weapons: Horizontal disc running on 2 S28-400 MagMotors on 24v. The disc is made of hardox, has a diameter of 60cm and weighs 17.5kg. The two 15cm long teeth are also made of hardox and weigh 2.25kg each, so the entire disc weighs 22kg, and thanks to that KE calculator, it produces 97.64kJ. Has a spin-up time of about 4.5 seconds.

Srimech: Invertible.

Strengths: Destructive weapon, good all-rounder otherwise.

Weaknesses: Tires can be hit by axes and crushers, high spin-up time for disc.

Name: Sir Spinalot
Weight: 100 KG
Shape: Circle
Color: Light Blue with a painted USA Flag
Dimension: 800mm x 800mm 120mm
Locomotion: 4 foam-wheels, the wheels are 4 x s28-400 magamotors with 8 x v24 3600ah battery packs
Ground Clerance: 10mm
Speed: 20mph
Armor: 5mm titanium
Weapon: 2000x8x8 titanium spinning bar that runs 1000 rpm with 4 x s28-400 magamotors
sri-mech: Yes, the self-righting bar is a electric linear acutator that is on top of Sir Spinalot
Strength: Powerful Weapon
Weakness: Vulnerable when weapon is disable

Weapon: 2000x8x8 titanium spinning bar that runs 1000 rpm with 4 x s28-400 magamotors

Just calculated that on the kinetic energy calculator...oh dear. :proud:

A 2000mm x 8mm x 8mm titanium spinning bar, at 1000rpm, weighs about 560g (or 0.56kg) and gives out 1 kJ.

Yeah, I think you should look into the spinning bar a little more. :proud:

Nothing majorly wrong with either of those - again, Im not qualified to advise by any means (the reason being I always forget to check units!!!) and Sir Spinalots bar could do with a Kj count, but since I cant get the calculator to work Ill leave others to advise on that.

Are we still welcome to post battles in here to get them evaluated? Only reason I ask is because the one I have is rather long.

(Message edited by joeychevron on February 29, 2008)

the s28 150 mag in my opinion is no good for a hw. i would still turn up my nose at a 400. i went with the mag c40 for the thermal mass. they are perfect for a heavy drive. others might say different but thats my opinion and why envy and thor run on c40s

Yes. You can post battles in here. :)

Righty...

(to clear up confusion, Quaestor is what I intend on calling the axe robot that somehow managed to start off an argument about motors)

Gabriel vs. Quaestor vs. 147 vs. Fire And Ice vs. Nidhogg

Arena: Your basic Robot Wars series 7 arena
House Robots: Nope

3
2
1
ACTIVATE

Fire And Ice gets the quickest start, driving in towards Nidhogg which has turned away to try and get the crusher in on Gabriel. The resulting impact sends all three robots careening towards the side wall, whereupon one of Nidhoggs spikes gets caught in the angle grinders. 147 drives in on Gabriel, getting underneath the wheels and FLIP! over goes the big triangle, landing right way up but virtually on top of Fire And Ice. 147 continues forward and hits Fire And Ice, but didnt get there in time for a broadside attack and now finds its flipper being chewed up by the saw in its opponents front wedge. Meanwhile, Quaestor, which until now has kept out of the melee, has gone over to investigate Nidhogg, which is still stranded on the angle grinder, brings that powerful axe down, and BAM! it hits the left side of Nidhogg, denting it, and slides down into one of the cutout eyes, jamming firmly in there...but also snapping Nidhoggs rear spike with the force of the impact and bringing it down from the grinder. Regarding the other three, it seems that Fire And Ice has 147s felt tangled up in its saw, but this means 147 cannot do anything and F&I now moves itself and its passenger towards the pit release button with intent, as Gabriel comes off the top corner of Fire And Ice and sensibly drives away, giving the action on both sides a wide berth, and for good reason as Nidhogg has just caught on Quaestors rear spike with its forks, negating any effect Quaestors air suspension would have, and...promptly drops it again. Possibly a bad move, as Quaestor maneuvers to try and line up another shot on Nidhogg.
WAH...WAH...WAH......WAH...WAHWAWAWAWAWWA...
The slightly odd pit release siren sounds, as Fire And Ice hits the pit release button, but it would appear that it has lost 147 before its scheduled stop, and it tries to turn into the approaching giant snooker table too late, and is rammed...finds itself briefly staring down a decorative red ball...and FLIP! Fire And Ice goes up into the air about eight feet, aaaalmost out of the arena, but hitting the wall and landing upside-down near an approaching Gabriel. Thinking quickly, it gets front-to-front on the opponent, and with little effort uses its LEM-driven tracks to push Gabriel backwards and leave some interesting rubber marks on the arena floor. Quaestor meanwhile appears to be in some sort of bizarre circling dance with Nidhogg, almost cat and mouse, both with their weapons raised, and Nidhogg catches up and gets its forks under Quaestor, and begins to bring the ominous-looking crusher down, but then realises that there is a pit behind it, innocent and untainted by other robots, which cannot be allowed to remain in that state. The rubber on the underside of Quaestor makes doing this difficult, but Nidhoggs Leeson motors slowly, inexorably, send Quaestor into the void and smoke as its axe fires desperately.
With one opponent out of the way, Nidhogg turns to face 147, as the latter attempts to wedge beneath it...in the other corner, Fire And Ice is performing some deadly acts of a ramming nature on Gabriel, and its one remaining working saw has made a number of nice scratches and slots in a titanium section of Gabriels side. Gabriel seems to be having no luck turning away from the wall. Another ram jolts Gabriel enough to unbalance it and turn it over, and it is pushed away from the wall into a corner by its opponent. The flipper arm activates, for the first time this fight, but although rerighted its back is now to the wall, both literally and metaphorically. 147 nearby appears to have lost the battle of the wedges, and it is now on the forks of Nidhogg, and the crusher slowly lowers...strains...dents...and eventually penetrates the front of 147, which appears to be trying to use the flipper on Nidhogg to release itself, but to no avail as CO2 is venting from the sides of the flipper. Gabriel has managed to get itself stuck on the arena angle grinders again, and Fire And Ices ramming appears to be getting it further wedged in...wait, its free, but its not moving freely, only on one wheel...it seems one of the Magmotors isnt working as it should, or at all, and Gabriel is now moving in gradualy decreasing circles, away from the angle grinders, but towards the pit...it would only take a simple nudge to tip it down, and Fire And Ice obliges us with a tap from the saw, and Gabriel joins Quaestor in a cloud of smoke and Ti sparks. Three of these machines left, and 147 looks the least likely to survive, with the rip in the front felt betraying the damage to the metal beneath. It turns into Nidhogg though, as the beast comes in for another nibble...it gets beneath the wedge again, and to eliminate any risk of a flip it just raises 147s wheels off the ground with the forks, accelerates towards the pit, and stops to let the snooker table slide down and rest on its side on top of Quaestor.
With just over a minute remaining, its down to Nidhogg and Fire And Ice, and the latter has backed off from observing to line up an attack on Nidhogg, and charges forward...Nidhogg turns into the attack, but it hasnt got its lifting forks down in time and the tracked rammer sails beneath it and slams it against the opposite corner, sending Nidhogg bouncing over the wedge and onto its side...The jaw of Nidhogg raises, but merely tips it onto Fire And Ices front. The saw has run down and is no longer a threat, but the 110kg of robot behind it is, and Nidhogg doesnt appear to be enjoying the excursions to the sidewall it is undertaking. The two robots slam into the corner under Fire And Ices power, but Fire And Ice appears to have wedged itself on the wall, and the balance could have suddenly changed as Nidhogg reorients itself and goes in, its attack freeing Fire And Ice from the wall, but the crusher is positioned worryingly close to those tracks, and it comes down...the clock begins to tick down the last ten seconds, as the crusher penetrates and stops the rubber belt, it will go to the judges to decide between these two, regardless of what happens, but the arm digs in, and the right track snaps, first on one side and then the other, just before the cease is called!
CEASE
Its going to go to the judges, looking at damage, aggression, control and style, in that order...

DAMAGE (1-5 x 4): Nidhogg caused lots more damage, especially to Fire And Ice, which also took some damage earlier on - Nidhogg 4 (x4=16), F&I 1 (x4=4)
AGGRESSION (1-5 x 3): Fire And Ice was clearly more aggressive - Nidhogg 1 (x3=3), F&I 4 (x3=12)
CONTROL (1-5 x 2): Fire And Ice probably dominated the match slightly more, but Nidhogg had some control at times - Nidhogg 2 (x2=4), F&I 3 (x2=6)
STYLE (1-5): Nidhogg probably slightly the more stylish, but close - Nidhogg 3, F&I 2

NIDHOGG 26
Fire And Ice 25

NIDHOGG WINS THE JUDGES DECISION! Joey is jubilant, and is congratulated in his booth by Joey and Joey, while Joey claps from across the podium - Joey just sulks and stares downwards, feeling he should have won.

+2>OMG!! THAT was an unbelieveable quality of battle - brilliant! And its your first fight - even better. Everyone, I think we may have found a nomination for Best Writer 2008 :proud:

You should start your own competition. I know Id enter.

Joey is jubilant, and is congratulated in his booth by Joey and Joey, while Joey claps from across the podium - Joey just sulks and stares downwards, feeling he should have won.

lmao :proud:

All in all, that was a great battle. I do have a suggestion, though. Perhaps you could do some one-on-one battles, with some of our vapourbots? Because you already know all about your vapours, but Id like to see what you know about ours. :)

And Paul, good suggestion, but lets wait and see more battles first. :wink:

(Message edited by kodster on February 29, 2008)

my suggestion; open a small tournament first Joey

you seem to be a very talented writer

Right now, I can see one problem with that fight. You posted it in the How can I improve thread.

LMAO!

Good one, Frank. :proud:

Ill do that Kody - Ill probably have to look up a few things first, but I could probably manage some battles, or a tournament, provided theres interest.

And thanks for the compliments guys :)

(Message edited by joeychevron on February 29, 2008)

There is plenty of interest out there for new competitions. You could call yours the Chevron Championship :wink:

Paul, please give it a rest. I know youre trying to help but we dont know if Joey is ready to start a tournament yet.

I could manage a small one - somewhere in the region of 4-6 robots, or something similar.

And I apologise for taking this thread slightly away from peoples robots being evaluated. :lame:

No, no, its for both robots and battles to be evaluated, youre doing nothing wrong. :)

So how is my stats of Sir Spinalot. Is it approved or not?

Sir Spinalot

Weapon - not okay. Length gone overboard, width way too small

The rest - fine :proud:

How big should Sir Spinalot weapon should be?

Somewhere within 1.1-1.5 times the body diameter, then it will hit opponents. Width...make it at least 5-10cm. That should be good. Thickness is alright. :)

(Message edited by kodster on March 01, 2008)

so it should 2000 x 500 x 500 then?